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I have found those flee collars to be totally useless that is why I went to those drops which go directly onto the cats skin.

Keith

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I have found a balance with my cat because no matter what he gets outside so my solution was to train him to come on command. That way if bad weather is coming I call him and he comes home.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

OOO Thats a tricky one.Cats have fairly large territories, a bit of sex, the odd punch up, and the freedom to roam and kill things suits them.As long as theyve been spayed and given the cat flu jam theres no immediate harm in it. The huge majority of cats would probably become stressed or even show stereotypical behaviour is not allowed to leave the house occasionally. Unless of course you have a positively huge property.I have two cats, one is a homebody the other literally goes stereotypical in 4 days if not let out, panting and once when ill even working himself up to a fit.He also started to become aggressive .

I appreciate some people have cats with no road sense, and unless you live far from cities the chances are eventually they will get run down, but lots of cats successfully negotiate traffic, avoid people with guns, natural predators, and cat haters for the entirety of their long lives.I strongly suspect such skilled cats are in the vast majority.In town situations they might actually have a beneficial effect on rodent numbers, but in more rural settings they are a huge ecological issue killing literally millions of ground nesting birds, birds generally, rare reptiles, amphibians and mammals nightly.On island ecosystems along with rats, rabbits and goats they can prove to be environmentally catastrophic .(good word ).

Conversely I know someone who keeps her cats outdoors all the time, the harsh winters will probably shorten their longevity, she basically has no idea where they are or what state of health they are in most of the time, but they are fed and do live lives completely free of uninformed human restraint.It should be noted that they are not affectionate with her and she basically ignores them, so aside from copping for a food bill theres little point in her keeping them.

My own cats are both affectionate and free to come and go as they please, they are well fed , deflea'd, wormed, jabbed, and generally tended to, and they have their freedom too. I live on the edge of a town so the traffic isnt that bad, and the natural world just that bit too far away for them to get to.They nail the odd rat or pigeon, but thats about it, and since being fitted with bells and fluorescent collars they hardly get to kill anything. Pretty much a right balance for a domestic cat.

Cat ownership is probably not an ecologically moral thing to do, and neither is keeping a cat indoors unless it entirely suits its personality particularly humane.But somehow incidentally (and mainly thanks to a friend who didnt want them anymore) I have proved at least to myself that you can stop them breeding, getting run over, harming the environment, have a loving relationship, and still give them freedom and allow them the independance to choose their own lives. The independance of cats is after all one of the things that endears them to a lot of people. They could choose to leave, but often they dont.They are not the absolute mental prostitutes that a lot of dogs are (im not dissing dogs , I like them), they could get fed by the old ladty next door, but the keep coming back to me, and thats flattering.That negotiability and sense of accommodation between cat and man is a special thing, and something you can have with almost no other animal. Why stifle it?

Keep the cats in the house all the time. That way you will still have cats. Im soooo big against pets being outside. All because of a horrible accident which took my very beloved first pet child from me. If they cry to go out, just let them cry. Better a crying cat than no cat at all.

I think the point of all this is consult with your vet.

Also garlic only works if your cat will eat it.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

One note of caution though, while garlic can be effective against some worms, and if often known to be especially beneficial to animals like horses etc, it is not and never should be regarded as an effective treatment for bad infestations of tapeworm,hookworm,flukeworm, pinworm,or lungworm. It wont work on callamnus in fish either. Failure to treat these infestations with a pharmaceutical strength drug will probably mean the serious debilitation or possible death of your pet. Its a nice mild preventative and possible purging agent for worms under certain conditions,most commonly roundworm,and a few of the less serious external parasites, and it is safer to use than most drugs,but should not be considered an effective treatment in serious situations, especially with worms that migrate to tissues outside of the immediate gastrointestinal tract. I have seen horses that have literally had to have a whole bucket of tapeworm surgically removed from their testes, and the the horses owners literally used garlic daily. If you suggested to the vet that garlic was any kind of cure for tapeworm he would literally have laughed in your face.If in doubt, consult with a vet.

I think a pragmatic way to use garlic would be to use it regularly, thus reducing the need for chemical cures, but should it fail dont assume that a continuation of the garlic will solve the problem. Be sensibly judicious and turn to the pharmaceuticals and vetinary help when required, aware that garlic may be insufficient as a curative technique should a radical infestation occur.

Im not against garlic , thats because im also not completely against worms.Scientific research has shown that some parasitic worms, particularly pinworm can have a positive effect on digestion and the immune system. So ironically enough, an overwormed pet may be susceptible to constipation as cellulose in the gut will remain high. Some species that in a natural state would be kept in a state of mild "anaemia" by parasites actually do poorly when dewormed, suffering from heart conditions, strokes and overly rich blood, and its widely recognised that even human children deprived of contact with pets at an early age (thusly not getting a dose of worms) are more susceptible to both allergies and asthma , as some of the enzymic catalyst effect of worms on the gut wall actually promotes antibody production. Garlic would seem a sensible daily way to ensure that worm numbers would not be annihilated, but remain low, and believe it or not that would be a healthy balance.Many worms are simply symbiotic ( living in a mutually beneficial way with the host), and some worms cross the barrier of symbiosis to become parasites as they mature or ready themselves for reproduction. Should things get out of control though, reach for the dewormers.


It is said that 100% of the human race has pinworm, and 60% have roundworm, and that includes you lot.97% of domestic mammal pets have at least one flea on them,( Gotta laugh when people say MY cat or MY dog never has fleas- it only takes a walk in the grass after all.Youd have to keep a cat of dog in a glass tank for it not to pick up fleas.) No need to fear parasites out of hand , just treat them when they make a noticeable impact on health. Religious worming is probably excessive, and not doing it at all equally stupid. Its just a subject you have to remain cool and logical about.DONT PANIC .lol

So how does all that relate to fishkeeping? Well fish have got on with worms for millions of years, garlic wont hurt, and if you get problems use chemicals when you need to, pre-emptive deworming is probably unrequired. In keiths situation a dry house and central heating will be enabling the fleas that are already there to proliferate and breed, If hes noticing fleas biting his ankles and making the dogs fur drop out, then bomb the house and get the fish the hell out of the way. If its just a few fleas here or there just treat the animals with a systemic antiparasitic and let them knock off most of the fleas for you without ever risking the fish.Then use a bit of garlic after the major purge to keep levels low. Easy peasy



Last edited by longhairedgit at 29-Nov-2005 04:42

To help with the fleas on the cats you should sprinkle some garlic on their food. It is a natural bug repellant, and it is MUCH better for your cats than any collars or flea sprays or baths or whatever else. A lot of animals have sensitivities and allergies to those products. Everyone has garlic and it is not a big deal to sprinkle a little on their food when you feed them. With the collars and drops and such, you can't touch them and play with them because the pesticides in them can make you sick as well.

Think about it, what happens when you significant other eats too much italian? He/she stinks, right? Well it is the same thing only on a much smaller scale. Fleas can smell as well as dogs, if not better, so a little goes a long way and I promise you won't smell it. I give my dog garlic tablets to keep the fleas and ticks away. I have been ever since I first got her and that was about 7 months ago. She has never smelled like garlic, now other things she does smell like. yuck...

As for treating your house you are going to have to do that more than one time, especially if you didn't treat the whole house at once, they can just travel to another room to get away from the spray. You are supposed to treat every 3 day for like 2 weeks because they hatch every 3 days and their eggs are immune to the pesticides, so basically you aren't doing yourself any good to treat once becsue they will come back otherwise.

Have you talked to an exterminator? They might be able to give you some other ideas as to what you can and can't use around fish and other animals. Our pest guys are really good at knowign what to use and what not to use. They came to treat for bugs here where I wokr and the second he saw the fish tank he said, "Let's try something else first", so they do knwo what they are doing whether you are jsut asking them for somethign you can buy at Wal-Mart or something t hey will do for you.

Try to do somethign other than those nasty flea collars, your family and your cats will appreciate it, I promise!


Christina

I don't know anything 'bout flea control, but I do know some stuff 'bout keepin' fumes out of tanks

Kitty almost hit the nail on the head, but not quite Cover the tank in saran wrap, poke 2 holes in it (one on each end). run one (or a couple) air pumps thru one hole, put 'em on a long enough airline for them to reach outside/another room/somewhere fume free. The pumps will put clean air into the tank, and it will be able to escape thru the small hole on the other end of the tank... vapors won't be able to get in if you've got a lot of air moving thru it

You might want to put 2-3 big air pumps on one air line (with a gang valve or T valves) and run them into the room... it'll save ya a bit on airlines so ya don't have to run like 3 of them

HTH

Frontline never worked for us and we had a cat get very sick. Advantage applied monthly has always kept our cats and dog completely flea free. We also had a horrible infestation in the house and yard before we moved. Flea bombs and pesticides are worthless compared to treating the animal itself. Advantage is considered one of the safest flea treatments and we use it quite agressively on our dog. He has a flea allergy and will chew holes in his sides if he gets so much as 1 flea. Advantage will also rub off onto carpets and furniture a little helping to kill pests that come across it there without being as toxic as other methods used specifically on furniture and carpets. That's one of the reasons we use it on guinea pigs for fleas and lice. It gets all over the cage and kills everything without having to sterilize all their toys and change the bedding every day or 2 until the pests are gone.

Ask the vet for stronghold specifically, its widely available in the uk, and its second to none for total flea annihilation, ive found that fleas become a bit resistant to frontline over successive generations. Stronghold will worm the cat at the same time, and lasts in the system for weeks.Any flea that feeds on the cat will die during this period. If you use stronghold twice yearly with doses repeated in two weeks immediately after the first you will almost never get flea problems or worm problems


Flea collars have one problem, and thats that they work on contact and depend on a flea migrating to the fore of the animal to feed, but as most cat owners will know , a lot of fleas live and feed primarily at the base of the tail, never moving from there, so collars as a flea control basically suck.

There are many seasonal flea prevention treatments that you can use during your flea season. These are simple creams you apply every month for a few months each year. Talk to your vet or local pet supply store about them.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

normally we dont have a problem but the weather is still very mild here

i use advantage with my dogs, be aware that you are putting pestside on your pet and to use it only when you have an infestation, but after save the advantage for the next year. fleas are seasonal starts usually around may-sept ish time of the year.works but if you have nieghboors in an apt biulding who don't use it, it's a battle.

90g- anguilla rostrata,6 silver dollars,2 pictus catfish 60 g- anguilla rostrata 29g-4 blk skirt&4 serpia tetras, 6 harliquin resbora, 3kuhli loach 20g- 2 mountian minnows, 2 zebra danio& dojo loach , a corn snake and 2 monster dogs

at the moment i am using both.

Hi, i need to treat a room in the house with a pesticide, but it states that it is extreemly dangerous to aquatic life. problem is its the room with my 70g in it and it is totally inpractical to move the tank.
is there any way i can protect the tank from the fumes whist im using the treatment?

hi, i have already replaced the flea collars on the cars and am treating them. they now seem clear in the main. i like the theory that the ones in the house will try and get back on the cat asap so if the cats are being treated they should clean the house as they go to a certain extent.
i will see how things go with just that and very regular vacuuming.

thanks

I work at a cat shelter and there are many medications you can use that will kill all the fleas on the cat without spraying pestisides (sry cant spell). I am not a vet but if you havent already consult them on a medication to kill the fleas and then a long term flea treatment plan. I know of at least one that will kill all the fleas in 48 hours or less and keep working for a while to prevent infestation. I may be wrong though so go with what your vet says also I am not sure if that flea medication is available in Britain.

It might be advantage but gotta check on that.



Last edited by bcwcat22 at 14-Nov-2005 21:25

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

As a owner of three cats now, at one time six. We had a very similar problem. First stop the fleas easy there are products you can buy from vets/good pet stores. They are basically drops which you place just below the cats head on the neck. Now this will stop the introduction of flees. It is the eggs that hatch is the problem as soom as they do they want a host the cat as soon as they are on the cat these drops work.

Also do a very good steam cleaning and add a very good disinfectant I use Eucalyptus Oil since I started doing this we have not had a problem for years.

I hope this helps

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

A flea trap? Y'know those little pod things with an attractant and sticky stuff in, just like ant traps .And I dont think the fish would be especially safe anywhere in the house while spraying or flea bombing is being done, that stuff really gets around. Theyd have to go without oxygenation for over 48 hours, anything else is a bit of a risk.

ps is it really worth all this hassle for a few fleas? They cant live on humans for more than a few months and if youre worried about any other animals like dogs, stronghold or frontline will kill em off as they feed without polluting the atmos. Use the dog to kill the fleas

On the experimental front there are conductive sprays that actually use bio-electic currents to fry the breathing apparatus of fleas and mites, theyre not as effective as chemicals quite yet but they do basically work. Zoomed does one for mites on reptiles, but I dont know the brandname for one that kills fleas, have a search on the internet for a bit, something will turn up. Since they only work on tiny creatures and obviously wouldnt work in water I assume theres no way they could harm your fish.

Dogs have dog fleas, cats have cat fleas and humans have human fleas which are a mutation of cat and badger fleas. Worry not, theyd fade out in a few months anyway.Fleas dont do well without the intended host, you might get the odd bite, but theyll move on.



Last edited by longhairedgit at 14-Nov-2005 21:12

Last edited by longhairedgit at 14-Nov-2005 21:16

keith, the problem is unwanted visitors that arrived via our 2 cats, namely fleas. and as you would understand, the sooner i get rid of them the better.
i have already treated other affected rooms but i could isolate them from the room with the tanks in it.
i am more that open to suggestions of any product that would kill them without endangering the fish. that is why using it is a last resort.