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has anyone ever tried to keep a turtle in thier aquarium? my friend has a tiny one he keeps as a pet and after watching it for a while, i started wondering how well that would work in my 29 w/ the setup i have. the guy at one of my local stores said he thought it would work ok and has known people to do that before. any suggestions, experience stories?

the only thing that would come into mind is what kind of turtle/fish, i have ared ear slider that i wouldn't put in a fish tank with smaller fish(lunch) also i think if u get a turtle like the RES watch the filter, mines is messy. and dont forget to get on of those rocks that have those suction cups and gives the turtle an area to rest on land.

Please keep in mind that turtles are generally very large when they're full grown. It's generally reccomended to keep them in 125 gal + paludariums (that means half land/half water).

Other than that, all I know 'bout turtles is that they're messy and predatory (already stated above)

I am certainly no expert but I do know some varieties can grow very large.

Post a photo of it this might help you.

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i was going to try to keep a map turtle. they are like red ear sliders, but stay smaller. most of the fish i have would be as big as he is when he first goes in. maybe after af ew years he'd be bigger, but i am just pondering it right now. i'd like to get a 200 gallon tank for salt water, but i have no where to put it in my house. lol.

While I have certainly seen a lot of public aquaria that combine fish and turtles, in the confines of smaller home aquaria turtles and fish are not a great combination. The size of the fish a turtle is housed with can be completely irrelevant.Turtles can, and regularly do, take chunks out of fish far larger than themselves obviously this mutilation once begun will only cease when the fish is either removed or it dies. Its a common feeding technique in wild turtles ,if you cant kill it- injure it. Turtles often carry staphylococcus bacteria in their mouths ( rather like alligators , crocs ,and komodo dragons) the theory being, that if youre not big enough to kill it now, give it a nip and it may succumb to infection, then with patience you get a corpse to eat without the danger of a fight.In the wild this does very little harm to fish populations, giving the fish as it does , yet another evolutionary perogative to develop a strong immune system, therefore improving any given species. But in a small tank obviously it can be a total nightmare.Mature red eared sliders and some map turtles are primarily vegetarian as they get older, but if a big jiucy fish turns up, theyre unlikely to refuse the opportunity for a feast.Think of many turtles as having the same potential for aggression as a large puffer fish. It may never choose to take live food, they are often lazy feeders, but should the mood take it, it could wipe out your fish collection in an evening , and with that bite power, no fish will stop it. Being ambush predators as well as browsers and scavengers too, the speed and agility of a fish makes no difference, nor does the amount of time the fish takes to die. Turtles place no demands on water quality and a sick rancid fish makes no difference to their tolerant tastebuds. Turtles can hardly fail to make a catch in a confined area.

I have several red eared turtles , and have kept many other species including yellow bellies , several graptemys species and common and alligator snappers. The bite power of all these turtles is formidable, most are capable of removing your finger, and a few are capable of taking your hand off at the wrist. Their comparative strength and almost complete invulnerability to fish incapable of swallowing them whole or crushing the shell means they can attempt some quite brave attacks. To put it in perspective, I dont think my arowana would stand a chance against my largest female red ear, shes the size of a dinner plate,and she could bite straight through his fins, his spine , even his skull. If he attacked her back he would probably make almost no impact.

I regularly feed my two largest red ears a whole trout (about 1.5lb) between them. They tear it apart with jaws and forefeet in about 15 minutes the fish is a fleshy mess of bones and skin, and very little else. They actually eat most of the ribs and skull. The way they attack the (already dead) fish leaves me in no doubt that an adult slider or map turtle would cause a fatal wound with the very first bite if it wanted to.No vetinary surgery would save the fish from such a deep gouging wound, the blood pressure and osmotic balance of the fish would be irreperably ruined in a few minutes.

In addition, compared to fish, turtles are positively filthy creatures,larger specimens feed so messily and excrete such large volumes of waste that most keepers dont even bother with filtration, finding it much easier to just dump the water every few days.Not ideal conditions for co-habiting fish to tolerate. You also have a responsibilty to think about the psychlogical well being of the fish. Most fish will instinctively know when they are housed with a major predator if only by its reaction to them, and this would be a source of unnacceptable stress. A lot of big freshwater turtles are omnivorous too, they will eat plants, and will dig the substrate up on a daily basis.Even a small one, say less than 5 inches will still be strong enough to injure fish incidentally, and will tip rocks and bogwood over, and again that could be daily.

It should also be mentioned that turtles are the most often abandoned reptile pet on earth. Most people have no idea of the size, strength , keeping requirements and the sheer mess involved in their keeping. Some find out about the salmonella issue the hard way, and so do their fish.

I remember one day in animal rescue in particular when a combined effort from a local wildlife centre, the local rspca and some rather rubbish pet owners meant that I had to take charge of 74 turtles in a single day. Thanks to the efforts of myself and many others all those turtles except for 4 of them (so sick they had to be put to sleep) were successfully rehomed (my eternal thanks to pete heathcote of proteus reptile rescue) . This however is the exception to the rule. Most rescues and charities do not have the time, money ,equipment or resources to save large numbers of turtles, and worldwide the horrible fact is that more than 90% of turtles that go to rescue are simply put to sleep, because they cannot be appropriately housed at short notice. Tortoises have it much better, not on the care or abandonment front , but more people are willing to home them and save them.

Dont ever buy a turtle if you think there is the remotest chance that it will end up unwanted or that you cant cope with it. Many species live in excess of 65 years, well cared for you might actually have to give them to your children when you get to old to do all the heavy water changes. Its a serious responsibilty. They are more intelligent than fish, larger than a lot of fish, certainly much dirtier, and far more likely to cause you illness or have problems with housing.You cant regard them the way most people do fish. Its a different league of responsibilty required to care for them than say your average small freshwater collection.Turtles like most lizards need vitamin d3 produced from suitable uv lighting, calcium supplementation, basking spots and a varied diet. If they scavenge high protien commercial fish foods or indeed even beat the fish to the food, theres no way you will control the protien intake of a turtle. Some turtles will suffer from literally halved longevity if not seasonally brumated in damp soils and wet muds , not an easy thing to do at the correct temperatures.

Females may become egg bound and die if not given suitable nesting sites or male contact.You will find all this a bit much to cope with in a small aquarium.Turtles unable to periodically dry out will suffer from bacterial septacaemia or fungal infections of the shell and skin, without natural sunlight many of them cant shed thier shell scutes properly, and will suffer dreadful shell deformities which can actually compromise the animals breathing.So basically you need large haul -out areas in addition to a significant water volume. Too much protien in the diet will also cause skeletal and shell deformities. Dont forget the shell is formed from fused ribs, spine and armour plates. Theyre not aquarium animals really. More of a large paludarium animal.

I keep my turtles in the conservatory, with heating ,lighting and about 400 gallons of water. A glass aquarium doesnt really cut it.
Id have a serious rethink.



Last edited by longhairedgit at 02-Dec-2005 00:00

I wouldn't keep a Turtle with fish.


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Hello all,

Would someone be able to recommend some ideas on housing a pair of terrapins each about close to the size of dinner plates? I am getting married next year and my partner has a pair of old dames which I wonder would do OK if I set up a pond in my garden. I was initially thinking of putting in fish too but now with the information on this thread I wonder if I can do that? Didn't intend to put too big fish in them, maybe some small carp species or maybe even some form of gold fish, something with a flowy tail etc.

Thanks.

A lot of turtles can and have been kept successfully outdoors, in fact short of spending a small fortune on lighting its about the only way you can stop them getting metabolic bone disease. The main problem with standard ponds is that turtles often escape them,they can be surprisingly good climbers. A brick built one that protrudes several feet above the ground surface and perhaps edged with perspex might be a better choice.If you can avoid rightangles in the design it also means the turtles cant schooch up the corners. A hexagonal shape would be perfect, maybe with an island in the middle, for drying out and basking.Turtles are pretty tough, but large birds, rats , mink, raccoons , foxes etc have been known to take them out, so a mesh over the top is a good idea. Its nice to have sand on an island portion a couple of feet deep so egg laying females can safetly deposit the eggs and not become egg- bound.

In an exceptionally large setup its possible you might be able to keep a few fish with them , but those with long tails might prove to be more temptation than can be resisted. The size would be important as the turtles unless in a very large volume, would totally ruin the water quality for the fish.You may have to accept that even older primarily vegetarian turtles will always take the occasional fish. Unlike in a small aquarium smaller fish might actually have more chance to hide from a hungry turtle in a pond or lake, so they might actually stand more chance of survival than larger fish. Goldies and koi might as well have targets painted on them though.Ultimately turtles are scavengers browsers and ambush predators. If they really want a given fish, its chances of survival are slim.

Depending on where you live you may need to provide supplementary heating, either heat the water to mid 70's or provide a basking lamp or infrared source over the island area. When winter approaches. you may have to bring them indoors for a few weeks or months.People keep red eared terrapins successfully outdoors even in the uk with its seasonal temp range of anything from -10 f to 102f. Water temperatures outdoors can be lower than the recommended 75f as long as basking spots are available, and around the 90-95f mark. How well the turtles do is dependant not only on how cold it may be , but how long the cold spell lasts. If say in parts of the mediterranean or the states the winters are severe but short,(only a few weeks) sometimes its hardly worth bringing them in unless they have brumational difficulties and arent sleeping in the pond mud, if theyre awake, ill or have got caught out somehow, youll have to bring them in.In the uk a winter may drag on simply too long, and the animal could starve even if it doesnt freeze to death.Most turtles can take it much hotter than fish as long as they dont dehydrate, but the cold is a problem for them.

Personally I keep them indoors in winter, and let them out for the height of summer, but if your climate is hot, and the winters short theres no reason you cant keep them outdoors all year round. Just be aware that tranferring turtles to the outdoors for the first time may be stressful for them, and they must be allowed to get used to variencies in temperature gently.Dropping a turtle into a 30-60f pond will obviously not go down at all well when its been used to the 70- 80f mark all its life.



Last edited by longhairedgit at 30-Nov-2005 23:23

Hiya Longhaired,

Wow you really know your stuff! Well, I live in the tropics so heat is almost never an issue, it can only get too hot at times. I have this little area which might be able to set up a water body about 1 1/2 feet by 5 feet there abouts. Is it too small? I now have to figure out the basking area as well as the depth of the water body. Will they do OK if I have a miniature waterfall or maybe even a fountain somewhere there? I was wondering if a good pond filter would be enough for them?

Longhaired,
good reminder how turtles are good climbers.
When my boyfriend was a kid, he had 11 (yes 11)
red ear sliders that were given to him from a
family friend because they outgrew their 10g tank.
Yes 11 RES in a 10g tank.
To feed them, he would take them out onto the deck, and put them in a kiddy pool, that way they didnt poop in the aquarium.
One day he forgot about them (he was only 9),
and they were on the deck for a couple of hours.
Several escaped. Heres how:
They all scrambled to one side of the deck, piled up
on top of each other, and bailed off the side.
Poor turtles, if the 30 foot drop didnt kill em, he was sure the neighborhood cats did.
Ingenious critters turtles are. Even smooth cement cant stop em in a group!
I have heard of people successfully keeping larger pools in indoor enclosures of kiddy pool with rock and water and a wire mesh cage around it to keep the turtle in. Apparently this works quite well if you have the space available.


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Yup, their climbing ability surprises lots of people , and they can reach surprisingly high. For a turtle to escape it really only needs to get purchase with those front claws and its hell and gone.Some turtles with larger tails, like alligator snappers can use the tail to provide lift too. Some unusual species regularly climb waterfalls and weirs, and they have a rigid tail that stops them from tilting backwards, and they scale amazing heights, and thats against strong water flow!Thankfully they dont really jump, at least not upwards, they are pretty good at leaping off stuff though.I had a six incher nearly make a 2 foot lengthways jump from an island to a pool edge once (WHACK! ).

An adult with say a 10-12 inch carapace has the shell length, about 5 inches on the back legs, about another 4-5 at the front . So that means a mature red ear can stand up to 21 inches on its back legs, so obviously the walls will have to be about that much higher than the water or land areas. Estimate another 6 inches for one or two animals standing on each others backs, and that could make a minimum wall height of around 27- 30 inches if the wall is next to the land portion! This would be exactly why I recommend that they have an island to bask on. Getting up a wall from water is much more difficult.



On the question of the setup, im sure if you live in a tropical region the turtles will love it. Id make the water at least 3 feet deep if I could, just to help avoid those temperature extremes . A foot and a half of water depth would be fine if temps are steady and the water temperature is unlikely to break much more than 80f, its certainly deep enough for a red ear to swim in.

A waterfall is a nice idea to keep the water a bit fresher, youll need it, in smaller water volumes a turtle can change the water into a foul smelling fishy gravy in a few weeks. If you dont want to use filtration youll need the volume and oxygenation for bacterial breakdown to work. Turtles arent afraid of a bit of floww, they are powerful and heavy swimmers, but you want to avoid spray hitting the land area, this would cool a turtle trying to bask, and that obviously would be counterproductive. In terms of breaking down waste a turtle needs at least 4 times the filtration and water volume intended for a koi of the same weight. Disturbing the water surface is something you might find essential as mosquitoes will proliferate in the pool unless you make it difficult for the larvae to breathe. Obviously a few fish might help to keep mosquito numbers down. You certainly could use a pond filter, and if youre going small on the pool size youll certainly need it. Make sure all intakes and filters are as rugged as you can find, and unless you particularly want the turtle to move them daily make sure youve weighed them down with the weight a turtle cant push. So that translates at about 30lbs, its probably easier to tie it to something. You dont want to have to keep going in there for maintenance, in a hot country with turtles ,and a long term enclosure, salmonella is a given. But at least you dont have to run a cycle, the turtles couldnt care less.In fact a turtle will probably cycle a filter faster than any other animal, but then its more likely to clog it too! Some floating plants help keep the water sweet, and turtles will eat them too, in a large pond, you may have to feed your turtles very little if its well planted with the right species,but in small ponds they usually just destroy the plants.


...and before someone sparks up that it might be a bright idea, no you shouldnt consider turtles to cycle fishtanks, they will cycle the filter, but probably poison your fish with bacterial levels at the same time. They are renowned for their rather foul gut contents....and as I think weve proven here, turtles are more hassle than fish.


Last edited by longhairedgit at 01-Dec-2005 23:59

Hiya Long Haired,

Thanks for the information. I have a year to plan if and how I can have this pond.