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dudehi
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Registered: 28-Dec-2009
male usa us-florida
alright so lets get started on this new aquarium. well its in the middle of 2 smaller aquariums. to the left their is a 15 gallon with 2 angels. to the right, there is a 5 gallon with 3 tiger barbs and 3 guamies. the angels recently had parasite type disease so im not messing with them.

a brand new 47 gallon right in the middle!! it is taller then wide. so their is not that big of a bottom. now the fish i was planning on getting. i have 75$ for a heater and fish and probally more rocks. now this is my plans for fish. 1 kuhlii loach, 4-6 zebra danio's, 4-6 neon tetra's, and im not sure what else to get. here is where i need help on. my dad came and said he thinks i should just get rid of other 2 tanks and put fish in big one and just add one. now i just want a brand new tank with new fish. now im looking at a peacfull community tank. i definitly want the loach but you guys can tell me all the fish u think i shud put in or add onto my list. keep in mind that the look (theme) of the tank is natural. this means there is no colorfull rocks just plain colors like you would see in the wild.
Post InfoPosted 29-Dec-2009 23:35Profile PM Edit Report 
keithgh
 
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dudehi

I believe that the Kuhli Loaches prefer to be in small schools, 4 would be OK They do require at least one area of very thickly planted plants Anubias nana is excellent for them.
I would not buy the Danios I would certainly make the Tetra school as big as possible.
You will find that the Cardinal Tetras are a far stronger fish over the cheaper Neon Tetras.

Are you USA or UK Gall?

What you have to remember a 47Gall is no where near a 47Gal
You have to consider the gravel(Substrate), Rocks, and driftwood, plus any thing else that goes into the tank.

The only true test is to measure it as you start filling up the tank.
You will be surprised at the difference.

If you are wanting live plants you must have a minimum of 3ins to 4ins 1-3mm gravel.
Many will say different but 99% of my knowledge is based on 40+years of fish keeping.

Keith



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Post InfoPosted 30-Dec-2009 03:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dudehi
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man 40 years, your really dedicated : )

well i have the cycling going right now and i have rocks in. i never did boil them. i didnt find them off the side of the road either. it was from a landscaping place.

i found a couple more fish that looked neat to have. and i was thinking that the group of danios would keep in their school while tetras in theirs. i visualized all the different kind of schools traveling around in there.

i am in the US. it is a 47 GALLON. i have no idea why finland flag is on my profile lol.

i have a book on different kind of fish so i just looked through and found fish that looked neat then read about them. i made sure all fish said they were peacfull and good in a communiy.

those other fish i looked at were : pygmy Cory, african glass catfish, blue panchax, and the threadfin rainbowfish.

also thanks about advice on cardinal tetra's, i will deffinitly get those (more expensive) instead of regular neons.

in my book i says about the kuhlii loach, ill copy down word for word::
HOW many in one tank?
although the fish will group, they are natual loners and can be kept singly.

now my new 47 gallon tank is taller then wide. ill mesure.
width: 51cm lenth: 75cm
getting a group of kuhlii loaches i thought would limit the amount of bottom feaders i could get. now how well of a job do kuhlii loaches do at cleaning the tank. beacuse of height of stand and tank together, it is 153cm so it is nearly impossible to clean bottom real well. so i need some good cleaners.

also instead of danio's as test fish, i think im going to get the bottom feeders to start off.


my 15 gallon with 2 angels in it, now i was thinking if i gave it a medicated bath to get its infected parasites off and re-started 15 gallon, and once positive angels are cured put in 47 gallon. then put all fish from 5 gallon into 15 gallon. (yes it is over-crowded in 5 gallon). then i would either store 5 gallon or put a simese fighting fish in it. now idk how this will work out, but i will throw this out since ur a expert keith

PS: sorry if im kind of pilling questions, i am new to the fish hobby, as im about a year into it. btw the two angels were the first fish i ever had. & ima guy -.-
Post InfoPosted 30-Dec-2009 04:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
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Young FRANK has had aquariums even longer.

The beauty of the kuhli loaches is that they can get into every nook and cranny that no other fish can. I have 3 left in my 45Lt Cardinal & RCS and most times they are following each other around the tank.

I would still get the Danios first I even had them breding while the 45lt tank was cycling.

Keith

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Post InfoPosted 30-Dec-2009 06:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dudehi
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jeez, thats a rlly long time.

well i am thinking of giving the angels a medicated bath and re-starting the 15 gallon to get rid of parasites. i will moce angels to 47 gallon and move the guami's and tiger barbs to the 15 gallon. i will then use the 5 gallon as a quarantine tank. i was reading that those are really helpfull.

you said two different things, in first post you said you would just make tetra school as big as possible, then u said you would still get the danios???

Post InfoPosted 30-Dec-2009 15:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
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I would only get a few Danios as a Starter fish. This would be playing it safe.

Sorry for the confusion.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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Post InfoPosted 30-Dec-2009 23:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Shinigami
 
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EditedEdited 31-Dec-2009 01:35
As a bottom feeder keeper, I can state with absolute confidence that use of bottom feeders at keeping the bottom of an aquarium clear is a myth. My aquaria contain primarily bottom feeders of various types, including loaches, various catfishes, and plecos, and I have to clean my tanks as much as the next aquarist (if not moreso as plecos are incredibly messy). The responsibility of keeping the tank clean rests on the aquarist. I have a stool to help me reach into my taller tanks, and my gravel siphon is long enough that I can direct the siphon to clean the bottom of the tank while simultaneously directing the water into a bucket. That said, a shorter person could have trouble maintaining my tallest tank...

Pygmy corys, african glass cats, and threadfin rainbows could easily be done in a community, actually. These could also be kept with tetras and kuhli loaches. Threadfins are the pickiest of the fish you have listed, and would not do as well with active fish such as danios. Small fish, such as small species as tetras, may be eaten by adult angelfish. I do not know if pygmy cories will be eaten by angels. I have never kept nor researched blue panchax, so I don't know much about them.

As far as bottom feeders, kuhli loaches are the only one you have named; african glass cats and pygmy corys, while both being catfishes, are middle-dwelling fish.

Furthermore, you mention "guamis", when I assume you mean "gourami". Depending on the species of gourami, a 15 gallon may not be large enough for adults.

Also, as an alternative to starting a tank with fish, you might consider a fishless cycle. There is an article about this in this site's Articles section.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.
Post InfoPosted 31-Dec-2009 01:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dudehi
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np keith

thanks shinagami, seems like you really know your stuff. as for the gourami's, i know the tank is too small, but also i know it will not get to its full potential size becuase of it being in a smaller tank.

i didnt mean like i would never clean my tank, im just saying i watned a goood cleaner for bottom becuase i do not have a siphon and having bottom, well LESS dirty would be nice. im pretty sure kuhlli looaches will do a good job about that though. as from kieth, im not getting neons anymore, ill be betting cardinal tetras which are bigger and wouldnt get picked on as easy.

about the fishless cycling thing, i really dont see me doing that.

im currently thinking that ill start off with 3-4 danios and kuhlii loaches. once everything is okay ill add the cardinal tetras and corys. with them in, i will next add smaller angels instead of my grown ones so they will all grow together, with angels i will look for african glass fish and rainbow one as these will be the hardest finding. i live in florida and suprisingly there is no local fish stores, only pet stores like petsmart. i did hear of one a little drive and will check it out when i get adress.

thanks for everybodys help so far. im going to try and figure out how to put pics on computer from my phone since i dont have a camera
Post InfoPosted 31-Dec-2009 08:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Shinigami
 
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I didn't mean to imply that you would never clean your tank. That said, a siphon would be a good investment; I don't do water changes in my bigger tanks without one.

You tread on shaky ground when you argue that stunting fish is okay. Many aquarists believe it is irresponsible to keep fish in an aquarium where they will be stunted.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.
Post InfoPosted 31-Dec-2009 22:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dudehi
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stunting?? im not sure what you mean by stunting?? im assuming this means putting bigger fish in smaller tank?? its not a big deal with fish like gourami's.

also what would you suggest i do with them? do you suggest putting them in bigge thank?

acually, ill le all of you suggest to put in there. possibly fish that i have atm that will be possible to put in there are gourami's and tiger barbs.
must have kuhlii loaches in it, rest is up to you all.
Post InfoPosted 31-Dec-2009 23:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
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I certainly would not put in the Khuli's or any other fish while you are cycling with the Diano's Some plants are excellent during the Cycling process especially Floating water Sprite (Indian Fern)

WARNING before you start getting fish other than the Danios for the cycling process.

Take a good water sample to your LFS and get a full water Parameters done and most important of all get the figures dont be satisfied with its all OK. Then post all the results here.

I would hang back a bit on the khuli's until the tank is established a bit more plenty of plant cover etc.

When you are selecting your fish only get a few at a time 3-4 for the Cardinals and the bigger fish 1-2.
The trap 99% of new fish keepers is I want it NOW and that is when all the problems start. If your LFS tells you its OK to add every thing at once start looking for a better LFS.
Too many fish at any one time can very easily upset the cycling process very quickly.

While you are doing the Cycling with the Danios and at every water change use a Product made by Sea-Chem called Stability this introduces a good healthy bacteria to your tank and keeps the original bacteria in a very healthy condition. I know there are similar products on the market but they are not as good that is why it cost more.
Just a side note(You only get what you pay for) You will find that out a lot while fish keeping.

Now for Vac cleaning many never do a Vac cleaning at all the reason being the bottom of the tank is fully covered with plants. Then you wave the Vac over the plants.

You will learn more as you go along.

That is where FP is excellent you get the correct advice. Some may have different opinions on how to do this and that. Cycling is one which you have seen already.

Just keep asking questions as you go along.

Chat can be good but lately it has been very slow.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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Post InfoPosted 31-Dec-2009 23:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dudehi
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thanks kieth

with danios, where would i put them when cycling is over. so i would get 3-4 danios for cycling. in about 2 weeks with them in, should i get the loaches and cardinals? another 2 weeks passes and ill add gourami's from 5 gallon and new angels? then another month or so ill add more cardinals. or would you suggest to put all cardinals in at one time?

also would petco be a LFS even though they suck at selling fish. could i ask them for the water check?

Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2010 03:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
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If every thing goes OK that should be a good plan.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2010 08:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dudehi
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alright and the danio's would be part of that community? or would i need to move them or do sumthing with them since their just cycling fish?
Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2010 13:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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EditedEdited 01-Jan-2010 16:04
Hi,
Since you already have fish in the tank, you might as
well continue. Generally, one chooses the "starter" fish
to be hardy, ones that you want to keep in the tank
after the tank has cycled, and not fish that are to be
discarded after the cycle is completed.

Before you start your next tank, take the time to read
the information on the Nitrogen Cycle. As the cycle
moves through its various stages you subject the fish to
some really miserable conditions in which they can easily
become maimed or killed. The ammonia can reach as high as
6ppm, and nitrite can reach as high as 10ppm before the
nitrate begins to appear. During that time the gills of
the fish are burned and can be damaged to the point were
they die. Ammonia does the same thing to human skin.
Babies who are in urine soaked diapers overnight will
develop a red rash (skin burn) and if not cleaned will
develop open sores and infection.

Before you start your next tank, read about fish-less
cycling. It's a much more humane and modern way to cycle
a tank. It's also much less expensive when you consider
the cost of some fish and the quantity of them necessary
to cycle a given size tank. Simply add gravel, plants, and
water, dose with ammonia, and test occasionally while you wait.

Frank
References:
Nitrogen Cycle
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html
Fish-less Cycling
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2010 15:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dudehi
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EditedEdited 01-Jan-2010 17:53
thanks frank, i will look into the cheimistry stuff, as i now nothing about

i have not added any fish yet, these are just plans. keith was saying above that danio's would be good for starting fish but also bad with tank that i want so i was just making sure.

why do i feel like you all think im cruel
Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2010 17:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
hca
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You have gotten some great info, so I wont add to that.

We do not feel you are cruel, just trying to educate you, so your fish will be happy and healthy.
Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2010 18:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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EditedEdited 01-Jan-2010 19:31
Hi Dude,
This is one of the most interesting hobbies or occupations
one can get into. To become a good seasoned fish keeper
and breeder, one soon learns the rudiments of chemistry,
biology, geology, botany, physics, electricity and
electronics, and even genetics.
And that's not counting the science of landscaping and the
math that goes into each of the above disciplines.

I'm going to be 65 this month, and I've been keeping fish
and planted tanks since I was 10. I learn something new
with every magazine I pick up. I subscribe to the
Aquarium Fish Magazine, The Tropical Fish Hobbyist, and
as a member of the Aquatic Gardeners Association, I also
receive the journal, The Aquatic Gardener.

By the way, no one is accusing you of being cruel.
It's just that there is a better way.
Many of our local fish stores, be they large warehouse
types or small corner stores, continue to encourage the
"old way" of cycling a tank. Sometimes because they don't
know any better and its an ingrained way of doing it.
Or, because it keeps bringing you back spending money as
your fish die off due to your inexperience or their poor
advice.

Have fun, don't be discouraged, and enjoy the trip!

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2010 19:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
zeketaz
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I'm in Florida also and although it might take some major work I have found lfs not the lousy petco or petsmart. what part of florida are you in?
Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2010 20:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
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Frank is only young fella. I can not remember ever not being interested in fish. As a young boy I used to get the tram and go to the in those days the only big public aquarium in Melbourne, where they had the performing seals, a pantomime plus a Punch and Judy show (that dates me a bit) My first tank was close to 42 years ago.

I am also a young fella only 72 years young.

Both Frank and myself had to learn most of our stuff in what is often called the good old days. I would very occasionally see a imported magazine and would look at amazement what they had in partially Germany.
Next year we will have had 100 years of fish keeping between us.

Keith :::Y

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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Post InfoPosted 02-Jan-2010 00:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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