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Hi everyone. I last had a 10 gal about 10 yrs ago. We're just starting a 20 gal for my 2 yr old (i.e. me.) I'm currently cycling with "Stabilizer" daily, and the LFS gave me 3 "feeder" goldfish to start off with. Despite knowing better (I've been checking this site out for awhile) I took them, and they seem to be fine, but I'm hoping they won't wreck my initial plan for the tank. I was hoping for:

1 male betta (I'm really partial to bettas)
4-5 Corys (all the same, whatever I can get at the LFS)
6 schoolers (again - depends on what I can get - I'd like colourful and active - could be Neons / Black Neons / Head/Tail lights / cardinals)
and perhaps 2 Gouramis

Also - I've never had a live plant, and would like to start with one.

But ... is the presence of my little "carps" going to be a big factor?

Any help / comments / suggestions are appreciated!

Welcome chips

First off, 'feeder' goldfish will need to be in a pond. They need around 20-30 gallons of tank water each while they're young, up towards 50 gallons each as they get older. They're pond fish, and you'll need to start looking now for one to get them to.
Personally I'd never ever ever accept 'feeder' fish to cycle a tank with. They're likely to introduce any number of issues into the tank. If you can take them back now. There are other ways to cycle the tank that wont introduce disease, or leave you with fish you cannot house.


Once the goldfish have a better home, a large stocktank works well if you can find nothing better (and makes a great pond!), I'd say the tank stocking is fine, but leave the betta out. Get him a 5-10 gallon for himself so he won't get his fins nipped. You can get some small shrimp or a snail as a tank mate, though he may end up deciding they're lunch.

With only a 20 gallon, you're limited a lot (though it's tons better than a 10 gallon for a community tank). Concentrate on smaller corys. Some of them get very large. If your LFS doesn't supply adult size on its info cards, (and lets face it most of them don't!), write down species and a brief description and check it against the fish profiles here. Many stores even label their fish wrong so it's pretty important to double check.
I'd also say stick with smaller schoolers. 20's have rather limited surface area, with fishtanks long is always better as it offers more surface area for gas exchanges to occur.

Live plants are a great option. If your tank has a standard hood and lights stick with the low light species like java fern, java moss and anubias. Once you start increasing the light on the tank you will need to supplement co2.

Biggest thing, if you want a community tank you're going to have to find a proper home for the goldfish. They're really great fish with tons of personality (IMO) and deserve a proper home.


^_^

First of all Welcome to FP go to The Recovery Room and tell us about your self and get your self known.

My knowledge of gold fish is limited but I do know they are not suitable for that tank or for cycling a tank.

I would return them immediatly and get some Zebra Danios they are perfect for that. Also think about another LFS they already have given you some information that is not exactly correct and could have put your tank in danger of they have already imported a problem.

When I cycled my 45 lt with them they actually started to breed, they are tough little fellas. I have not heard of "Stabilizer" I would prefer one of the strongest live bacteria boosters which is Seachem Stability an excellent product.
Plants in my opinion are a must in a tank but not in some tanks with certain fish as they would rip and tear them to death.
For cycling a tank a heavy leafy floating plant is excellent like Water Sprite "Indian Fern"

If particularly would like a M Betta Cardinal Tetras make a very good show and a good companion for him.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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Thanks for the advice. I'll be returning the feeders to the LFS this weekend, and looking for some Danios and a plant to get going properly.

I'm still thinking I want to try the Betta - that's what got me going the first time around, and he survived (and bred!) in a 10 gal community with (get ready to cringe..)

1 female betta
1 danio
1 dyed "glassfish"
1 bronze cat
1 angel
1 leopard pleco
1 bala shark

The end of that cycle was that the danio got ick, the glassfish was eaten by an opaline gourami that I returned and got the cat (who came with snails!), I gave the betta to a friend, and the LFS took my giant pleco, shark and angel. The cat and female betta died.

So long story short, I'm really trying to go about it right this time (and feel pretty badly about some of that past setup, knowing what I do now)

ok ummmmm so id get like 6-8 zebra danios. and maybe a betta just watch it. id get some corys and then u should be good.

id go with a school of danios, and maybe the betta

I think you would find that a school of any fast fish like the Danios would be too much for a Betta. That is the reason I had the Cardinals in with my M Betta.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

If a betta is what you want, concentrate on how to get that tank without causing harm or damage to other fish.

Danios are good for cycling as they're pretty darn hardy. But like keith mentioned, they may be a bit too much for a betta. I wouldn't stock them together, danios do best in cooler tanks with faster moving waters, and bettas like warm slow moving tanks.

If you're only considering danios for cycling, don't. There are ways to do a fishless cycle. I know it might not be as fun, but it's 100% safer for the fish, a lot cheaper, and generally less stress.

What are these 'stabilizers' you mention. Brand names?

Keiths setup of betta and cards would be very eyecatching and make a great statement.


^_^

I checked my "Stabilizer" - it is in fact Seachem Stability.

I like the idea of Cardinals and a Betta - hopefully the LFS has got some. If not, I may see about some danios and let the betta go for now, and then, after some corys, perhaps some pearl gouramis?

Being that as of Saturday, when I'll be returning the goldfish to the LFS that I got them from, there will have been a week of bio-activity in the 20 g tank along with 7 days of Seachem Stability added to the water - do I need to do a fishless cycle before I can add some cardinals and a plant?

Get yourself a master test kit make sure that there is no ammonia or nitrIte in the tank and that there is some nitrAtes showing, then you can add the fish. Before moving I ordered from big als a lot, they've got pretty fast shipping.

I'd suggest looking around at some of the other LFS in your area, I'm surprised that they would have foisted feeders for cycling on you, especially if they'd sold you stability ( !...err sorry, the heats been getting to me).

If they havent got cards, they should be able to order them in pretty easily. I'm a huge fan of zebra danios though, they're always active always darting in and out of the plants. Granted they don't have the coloring that cards do, but IMO they more than make up for it with their antics. I wouldnt trust them with a betta though. Danios, and some small corys would make a very amusing tank, and personally that's how I'd stock it. If you've got a betta craving though, you can buy a small tank for one. 5 gallon tanks are fine, especially if you keep up with water changes you'd only need a heater.

Yup, conflicting advice, don't you love it!

First thing is to get a reading on your water quality, master test kit is the best for that, cheaper than buying the drop kits separately, and much MUCH more accurate than the dip strips (huge waste of money IME )

Then, comes the decision. I've never kept cards myself but seen them plenty at the Baltimore Aquarium in their discus tanks, and their amazon setup. They always just hovered there to me, but, they were colorful.
Danios on the other hand, not so colorful, but mine have always gave me a bit of a chuckle. Corys will go ok with either danios or tetras, betta would be better not with the danios.().


^_^

Chips
Here is a photo of my M Betta and the Cardinal Tetras.
The tank now is Cardinal Tetras and Cherry Red Shrimps. For some reason I had no luck with the Bettas.
It took me a long time to locate that Betta too, as I wanted the same colorations for both fish

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Attached Image:

Betta & Cardinal Tetras 9-07

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

I love danios and I love bettas, but if you want a long tailed betta, I'd go with something like cardinals, black neons, or other small bullet shaped tetra. Danios are small, but they are surprisingly territorial and nippy (fantastic to watch though, but maybe not for a 2yo? a lot of the fascination is in the interaction). Generally it is only amongst themselves, but if the only other fish in there is a betta, he might cop some of it. It isn't guaranteed that there will be a problem, but given it is a kid's tank it is probably best to keep the risk of belly-up or sick/damaged fish to a minimum

If you want danios and a betta, I'd hunt down a short tail or plakat betta. They find moving easier and have less flowy fins for the danios to chew.


Try not to leave the tank empty for more than 24 hours as the cycling bacteria will die back based on the available food supply. No fish = no food for them. If you do leave it empty for longer, it could be an idea to keep it chugging along with a very basic fishless cycle (read: just keep feeding the tank a bit even though there are no fish)
Maybe take a sample of the water with you and get the LFS to do the test for ammonia and nitrite so that if they are both 0 ("fine" is not a test reading, you need numbers) you can purchase some of the fish you want.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

So the plan now is... running out this aft. to buy a test kit.

based on readings, will be taking goldfish out (and back) tomorrow, then, if water has shown good readings, will be picking out some tetras to replace the goldies, and hopefully pick up an anubias at the same time. I may leave the betta out now - much as I do like them, it seems to be the limiting factor, and I'd rather have a fun to watch community tank, (the "show is for my 2yo after all, even tho' the hobby's for me.)

So now I'm liking the idea of black neons, and I still want some corys. Anything else that would compliment these 2 groups?

Well in my 20g tall, i have 8 black neons and 4 peppered cories and they are really fun to watch!
Although, since you probably have a 20g long, you could (probably) have 6 cories.
HTH and Good Luck!


~Morgan~

So the goldies are gone, and I picked up 5 black neons today, along with an anubias, and they seem to like it in there.

anubias is a very hardy plant, and personally i think they look great too.bet it looks really good.

Chips
That Anubias Nana in the photo is now in the back corner measuring 8x8x8ins tall. Once it get established there is no stopping it. The Shrimps now make it their home and breeding area.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

I think you should loose the betta, fill it full of plants, and shove a load of Danio margaritatus, perhaps 20. Good filtration and airation, perhaps some shrimps...lovely tank!

keith how do you branch of your anubias to make smaller child plants?maybe better posted in planted aquaria