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Hey people.

This guy was purchased about 3.5 weeks ago and has been in a 2.2 filtered tank (ammonia and nitrite zero; nitrates <10ppm; kH 4).

He's to go in my 20 long after I replace the substrate. Size is about 1/2 inch or 12.5 mm.

When I purchased him, he looked the best of all of the smaller snails in the tank. Others had obvious shell problems (cracks, splits, uneven ends). His shell in the corner where it looks bad was rippled when I got him. Then his growth exploded in my care and 2/3 of the shell grew quite well (see pic 4 & 5). But 1/3 of it grew wierd and I don't know if it is getting better or worse.

He is resisting any veggies I put in teh tank whether boiled, raw, frozen-thawed etc. This includes spinach and dill - two high calcium veggies.

I have been feeding him daily, but 3x per week he gets calcium fortified fw crab and lobster bites. He loves spirulina wafers, fish food and blood worms, as well as the lobster bites.

I should add that behavior seems well. He sleeps eats in cycles of several hours. He seems generally healthy otherwise and has a hardy apetite.

Thoughts? I tried Applesnail.net and haven't had any comments in about 18 hours, but 13 views or so. It was a long post tho, as usual

EDIT: Oops! Pics

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/di_kor/album?.dir=/89e3&.src=ph

Last edited by Cory_Di at 26-Mar-2005 11:35

Last edited by Cory_Di at 26-Mar-2005 11:36

maybe he's just got a problem with his shell making ability?? your water seems hard enough to me...

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

I would guess depending on his living conditions before you got him that the sudden increase in care and food caused a growth spurt. Sometimes if you feed them well they just grow faster than they can lay down shell successfully. Also if he had a slight imperfection in his shell it might have inhibitted him from laying down new layers correctly. Some of my current ivory babies look similar and I have plenty of calcium in my water but I was feeding them all they could eat plus some. The olives and ivories in the tank where they compete with bottom dwelling fish for food look fine. I would cut back his feeding slightly, make sure there is calcium in the water not just his food, and wait to see what happens. Kent liquid calcium is a good way to add snail useable calcium without affecting hardness or ph. Bird cuttlebone is often suggested but only works well in high ph water or it will possibly raise ph. Egg shells are also suggest but with the possible ph problem and if not cleaned well they cloud water. I also feed mine weekend feeders. The binder in those is a form of calcium but again they can cause problems with even an average ph.

I've been adding very tiny amounts of calcium carbonate to raise kH. It started at 3 and it was up to 4 when I last checked. I'm also feeding him calcium fortified freshwater lobster bites.

The area appears to be healing. I'll know more in the coming days. I had no idea how snails build or rebuild their shells. I didn't know about layering and it is still a foggy concept to me, even tho I read it at Applesnail.net.

What probably happened is a minor injury to the mantle, either before or after you brought it home.
When the mantle is injured, the front layers in that area aren't able to be put down as fast, or as well, until it heals.
I have itty bitty babies with damage similar and even worse. All it takes is a fall to the gravel or bumping into another snail or a rock, anything.
With older snails, many times it's mating damage. As long as there aren't pest snails or nippy fish, he will be fine. The shell may heal beautifully, or it may not. I've seen it go either way.
Kent's Liquid Calcium is very good to have (1 drop/5 gal. daily). It will raise the GH. The Baking soda will raise the kH.

But I thought kH or carbonate hardness is what we want to raise? Calcium Carbonate seems like it should work, no?

He is slated to go into a 20 gallon long that will have a kH of 4.48. I won't be putting calcium in that particular tank, but will be periodically adding calcium carbonate about monthly or however often it takes to keep it there. My water level is moderately hard at just over 3 degrees and pH is at 7.8 before co2. By boosting it to nearly 4.5 I figured that would be adequate. I've not seen any hardness targets out there. All I see are pH recommendations, which really doesn't necessarily mean the snail is getting adequate calcium.

If you have hard water out of the tap, you should be fine.

I have soft water, so I have to use Baking Soda to raise the pH, Liquid Calcium to raise the GH, and Crushed Coral raises the kH. The way I understand it, kH determines pH, not GH. And snails require a high pH and GH. kH is the buffering capacity (alkalinity).

my water comes out of the tap with a kh of 3, but even then my tank with the apple snails in it was down to ZERO when i checked it a month ago i raised it up to about 6 using baking soda, and my monster snail is starting to heal the pits in his shell from having no calcium in the water

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

You know, I hadn't thought about how the kH could drop with a snail in the tank, but I can see that it would if they are using it up. Interesting.

I wonder how they use gH?

gh is also important with snails. It measures calcium and magnesium ions. If you happen to have high kh and ph with low gh like my water sometimes does then the snails will have shell problems. High ph is just to keep the acid from eroding the shell.

Well if they need higher pH, then how do they do in tanks with co2 that lowers it. kH can be high, but pH can be lower. Right now, my 20 long is about 7.2 with a 4.48 kH.

A ph over 7 is generally alright but if other things are off like not enough calcium in both the gh and kh form then they may have problems. If I use bottled water that starts at 6.8 and bring it up to 7.2 or 7.4 the snails do ok so long as I add calcium supplement. If I use my well water at a much higher ph then the snails do fine until the gh gets down to around 2. Then I started to see shell problems. I haven't really tested it because I don't want to ruin the shells on all my ivories but overall it seems if the ph is higher the amount of calcium can be lower and as the ph drops it starts to become harder for them to use calcium. Below neutral the acidic nature of the water begins to eat away at their shells. I know a few people who are into raising applesnails seriously and do planted tanks with co2. They buffer the water up then bring it back down to around 7.4.