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SubscribeBetta tank help
Smaug
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male portugal
Hi folks, I have a 26 gallons betta tank with a male betta. With all that space people start telling me that i could put in like tree females and they will get along just fine, is that possible?

Is that a "gooD" environemt to keep a betta fish?
Post InfoPosted 06-May-2008 01:27Profile MSN PM Edit Report 
Callatya
 
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female australia au-newsouthwales
While it is possible, it is hard to know how it'll work out. Every fishis different and while some males will get along fine with females long term, others will knock themselves silly showing off or will attack whichever one they find threatening or attractive. Also, not all females get along. There are many that seem to have more to prove than the males.

If the tank has plenty of hiding spaces and is nicely planted AND you have the facility to separate out the fish if it doesn't work out, then you could try it, but it is very hit and miss. If you get a bad combination you could lose fish through injury and infection.

I have no problem with mixed sex betta tanks or even same sex tanks. It just has to be the right tank and the right fish. I think bettas do benefit from some other creatures being in the tank, but those other creatures don't necessarily have to be bettas too.



Have you considered fish of a different species instead? Small bullet-shaped tetras are usually a safe bet, as are some types of rasbora.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks.

Post InfoPosted 06-May-2008 02:29Profile Homepage ICQ AIM MSN Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
brandeeno
 
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male usa us-california
not wise to put male and female betta in together unless for breeding at a certain instance.. i would put in some tetras or platies or something else.. not more bettas... although with out the male betta you could have like 20 females in there... 26 gallon tnak is HUGE for a betta... also what are your tanks specificastions and water parameters so we can elp you choose some fish that will work for you...

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"
Post InfoPosted 06-May-2008 02:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
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male australia au-victoria
I would agree with Callatya it can be done but it would take very careful selection of the fish concerned. They would have to compatible to each other and you would not know this until you tried it. I would say it would take a lot of experience to select the correct fish but personally I would not even consider it.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

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Post InfoPosted 06-May-2008 08:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Smaug
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male portugal
well, if I do try to put the females in the tank set-up will be full of caves and hiding places, and if the male keeps attacking the females i'll pass him to my main aquarium. In that other tank i have a very dark and somewhat black angel fish, will it get allong with a betta?
Post InfoPosted 06-May-2008 11:36Profile MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
Callatya
 
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Angels are a bad idea. As pretty and calm as they are, they are still cichlids and can be quite territorial and nippy. This generally means the betta will end up with ripped fins and sometimes body bites.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks.

Post InfoPosted 06-May-2008 16:58Profile Homepage ICQ AIM MSN Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
Smaug
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male portugal
mine passes his time dodging curious botias... he never does an agressive move...
Post InfoPosted 07-May-2008 00:30Profile MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
ScottF
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male usa
hi Smaug (great name, by the way, Tolkein fan here as well!!)

I have a male Betta in a 10g, with a handful of Harlequin Raspboras and for now 3 Panda Corys. (I say for now, because as soon as the 55g is cycled, the Pandas are going in there to become part of a much larger shoal.)

The Betta gets along well with the rest of his tankmates, although at times he will chase the others around a bit. But, that's never escalated to anything other than a chase here and there.

I've never tried breeding Bettas, so I cannot speak specifically to your question with the females. But, it sounds like you have a good plan, with a place for the fems to go if things go awry!

Good luck, let us know how it turns out!
Post InfoPosted 07-May-2008 03:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Smaug
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male portugal
I've been reading a lot of things in the net and found a LOT of incoherence about what mates can one put in with a betta.

one thing is sure: no one (or almost no one) has a betta in a tank has large has mine, the implications on the possible tank mates will be unpredictable.

so here 2 uncoherent things I found... maybe someone can explain me...:
In a 26gal the male will get along 3 females if enough shelter is given to the females -VS- the male and the females will kill each other! (perhaps that's what happens in a small tank...)

a male betta gets happier if he's alone in a tank, patroling a territory is stressfull for the fish -VS- the betta will be happier if he has some females to chase, it'll grow in muscle and reproduce more often has the mating occurs ad libinum in the aquarium.

Post InfoPosted 08-May-2008 00:57Profile MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
Callatya
 
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EditedEdited by Callatya
There is a lot of differing opinions and a lot of people who have tried things without having a good setup or with having particularly agro fish or having the ideal setup and very placid fish. Most breeders will know how to house groups together and most pet keepers will scream blue murder if you so much as mention colony living (most, not all ) but in reality it is all dependant on the fish, the setup and the experience of the keeper.

Very unlikely that bettas will kill each other unless they are living on top of each other in a tiny tiny tank. What generally happens is that they get in a few good nips and infection sets in. They are not really very good when it comes to immunity so the infection will set in and that is generally what will kill a betta that has fight damage (and it doesn't even need to be bad fight damage, sometimes just the stress and a scratch close to the body will do it, or even just a tail bite. It depends on a lot of factors as to how it'll play, but the idea is to avoid too much rough and tumble. Any attempts to bite the body and eyes mean game over, fish need to be separated, even with just females. General pecking order stuff is sorted without that, body bites mean business.

"Enough shelter" to me would mean a densely planted jungle. I have a 26gal, and for long term housing I would say it has enough room for 3 bettas, either 1M+2F or 3F. That is based on what they seem to claim as territory and how the pecking order plays out. If it wasn't densely planted (and I mean DENSE, to the point where there looks to be more plants than water) I'd be unlikely to try a male/female group in that size. It is small enough for even a halfmoon to motor after a female and if there is no visual block, places where they can escape from each other's sight before finding a place to rest, whoever is top dog will simply follow the lower ranked fish around and hassle them. This ups the stress and as above, not a good thing. If I *knew* the fish or if they were all spawn siblings, I'd be more inclined to try it, but it is certainly not without risk. your tank decor and choice of fish are crucial to how successful you'll be.

Bettas do OK alone, but it seems to up the aggro level a bit as they get overly excited when they see another fish and it is just like an excited puppy. It is great for showing and being able to keep tails in good order as well as getting human/fish ineraction, but they are very 'in your face' with other bettas when they are kept this way. If they have other species as company, I'm sure a male would be perfectly happy, but they tend not to worry about defending territory from other species (with the exception of guppy males) so it would be moe about peaceful co-existance with company.

They are unlikely to reproduce in a 26gal with 4 of them in there. The other females would ruin the nest and eat the eggs and the male would spend ages chasing them off. I'm not aying it can't happen, but it would be highly unusual. A 2' is within the size limits of a breeding tank (general maximum being 3') and the reason for that is becaause in tanks that size, the fish are rarely out of each other's sight and the female can't wander off. It lets the dominant fish control the tank (great for breeding, a bit iffy for housing) They might spawn, but I don't think you'd see offspring, and you risk having two paired and two jealous or being run off. In this situation you'd be better off with one male and 2 females, just because if they do pair up, that dynamic works better.
Your male will build muscle but that would happen naturally anyway in a tank that size with appropriate filtration, and well, happiness is subjective.


I guess that isn't much clearer.

realistically I can't say "don't do it" because I do it and I know it can be done It is safer for the fish not to do it, especially if you are unfamiliar with spawning behaviour and the level of aggression and attitude that is acceptable in asserting dominance. I will say to be VERY aware of what you are doing. There is no magic formula here. It has risk, you need to minimise that risk as best you can and be prepared to intervene if things go wrong.
26 gal is big, but your dominant fish will claim about 10 of that, and the others have to share the remainder. Thankfully the territories have loose borders, but it can still be tricky as they tend to divide the tank at funny angles so the low ranked fish get hassled if they go to the surface. There will always be the odd squabble so water quality has to be pristine to avoid infection and you really do need a lot of visual blocks and hiding places with multiple entry and exit points so the submissive fish can't get trapped. If you can't plant, make floating nylon spawn mops and stripped plastic bag plants to give some bushy cover. Add wood and rocks and things they can hide behind. Baffle the current from the filter so the weak and tired don't have to fight against it or put themselves in view to avoid it. Go to a breeder and get 2-3month old spawn siblings that haven't been jarred so you know they are aware of how to act in a social situation. I'd personally steer clear of plakats and giants as both have more chance of being closer to fighter bred lines. Ideally I'd use veil tails or combtails as they are the best mix of robust and calm. If you go too fancy you lose robustness and you end up with neurotic inbred fish that have no clue how to behave. If you go too far towards plakat and wild you risk picking up fish that are contaminated with fighter stock (a real concern as fighters are released into waterways so even wild caught specimens can't really be considered pure). And really really watch them. Lots. Learn the body language, learn who eats first and who reacts when.

They will eventually get so bored with one another that most of the above won't matter, but for now I think it gives you the best chance of success if you want to go with the group option. Good luck with whatever setup you choose!

(and just so you know I'm not just rabbiting on, I have 4 in a 55 gal with a bunch of other fish. I have various plants and a lot of large rocks that provide good places to hide from view. The size limits chasing and targeted attacks and other tankmates provide good distraction. It can be done, it just takes some planning and some co-operative fish.)

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks.

Post InfoPosted 11-May-2008 22:17Profile Homepage ICQ AIM MSN Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
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