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  L# PoisonWaffle's 20L Tank Log!
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SubscribePoisonWaffle's 20L Tank Log!
poisonwaffle
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I've had water in the tank for about a month, but I guess I just decided to start a log on it, so here goes

I've got a 20 gallon long tank and 10 gallon sump. The tank has a 60mm hole drilled in the upper left corner in the back, and the drain is all plumbed with 2" PVC. The return consists of a Mag5 pump and 1/2" vinyl tubing and a 24" PVC spraybar. Virtually everything in the entire setup is totally DIY.

I'm at school now, so I don't have pictures of the tank on me, but I'll post those up later. For now, a verbal description of the sump will have to do

I've got two sets of bubble traps (6 baffles total, all siliconed in): one on the left side of the tank, and one on the right. In the middle, between the bubble traps, I've got a small (10"x10" refugium. I've got Cheato, Xenia, and a Pocilliapora frag (I thought it had died after it fell off of the rocks and landed upside down in another tank while I was away for president's day break, so I threw it in the sump just for the heck of it and it's starting to grow back!)in the sump. I've got 70w of compact flourescent lights in the sump, 45w of those run 24/7, the other 25w run on a reverse lighting cycle (to regulate temp and help the corals with the night/day stuff... they don't like 24/7 too much). I've got 4 cooling fans in the stand (intake, one exhaust, 2 circulation).

Last night I started building a DIY wet-dry filter for the sump. It's basically a 4x4" glass box that I'm going to drill a hole in the bottom of. I started with a 20"x4" sheet of glass, cut it into 5 4"x4" pieces, and siliconed 'em together! I've got pics of that project that I'll upload later

My next project for the tank is a siphon-controlled auto-topoff system. I'm building all of that out of 3/8" steel rods that I'm welding together. It's rather difficult to explain how that's all going to work without pictures, so I'll post up pictures when I build it.

I've got my first bubble trap in my sump set up to act as a big skimmer as it traps all of the microbubbles from the drain... it actually works rather well, surprisingly! I won't even need to get a real skimmer! Tho me an' daka did try to build a DIY venturi needle-wheel skimmer out of PVC, vinyl tubing, 2 pumps, and fishing line (strung thru holes on the impellors). It kinda worked, but it was leaky and 4' tall... rather bulky and stupid... didn't need it anyway, so parted it out for other stuff...

Lemme know if you've got any ideas for stock (fish, corals, anemones, etc). I'm pretty much open to anything... tho I'd like to do a mixed reef with a pair of clowns and an anemone of some sort. Whatever you guys can come up with that works around that. I've got a 150w Mogul MH that I've gotta wire up when I build my canopy...

I won't have any money for a few months, so I've got plenty of time to plan all of this stuff out. I'm just doing cheap stuff and setup for now.

Anyway, I'll post up some pictures later...

Lemme know what you think!

--Waffle
Post InfoPosted 21-Feb-2007 00:30Profile PM Edit Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Glad to see another poster in the SW forum again (I know you were here before but it's been a while).

IME syphon topoffs don't work due to random diffusion of salt molecules. This means if your top off bucket starts as freshwater and there's a syphon that connects it to the tank with no break in the bridge, eventually your bucket will contain salt water. This will lower your salinity in your tank quickly, then it will raise your salinity over time.

The only way to top off a tank is either with a constant drip which is very difficult to maintain at a constant rate, or something with a pump mechanism....like a float switch.

Otherwise I found your setup great. I noticed that in my sump all the bubbles in the first bubble trap act kind of like a skimmer as well. IMO it doesn't quite do the job well enough, though yours might.

I've always wondered how my corals in the sump would react to 24/7 lighting. I never thought it would be a great idea, and now my sump is mostly corals so I never tried it.

My choice of a small tank inhabitant with a clown pair would be a prawn goby/pistol shrimp pair. I've always wanted a goby shrimp pair. They'd keep your sand clean too. As far as anemones go, you may or may not be able to keep corals in the display due to the eventual size of most anemones, and anemones don't "trade in" real well from what I've seen at the store. Usually they get banged up and stressed out then see a change in water conditions and look like crap and never get sold. I think it would be worth the sacrifice to keep just an anemone or two in the tank with some fish. It would be real different I think.

Can't wait to see photos.



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Post InfoPosted 21-Feb-2007 05:31Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
poisonwaffle
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Yay, I finally have time to post up the pics

I've got 'em uploading right now on the slow connection at school... may be a while...

About the siphon auto top-off. Freshwater is less dense that salt water, and they will stay seperated unless there is a force that mixes them (dumping freshwater into saltwater, for example, makes current that mixes them into a solution). One can actually stack water mixtures of different salinities in a test tube or vial. Anyway, the freshwater will stay in the container, hopefully. Even if it doesn't, it's only a few liters and shouldn't do too much. I will test it out in a bucket for a few weeks before I put it in the tank, tho. The only problem I'm having with it is the bottle collapsing due to the negative pressure created by gravity pulling the water down. I'm going to have to find a bottle made of harder plastic. I'm thinking of using a standard water-dispensing bottle that they have in grocery stores, or something like that.

Yay... the pictures are done uploading! I don't have pictures of the tank setup yet, but I do have some of the wet-dry construction and stuff.

Here's all the pieces that I made the wet-dry out of...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01641.jpg

Here's the finished thing while it's still drying. The rubber bands are there to hold the thing together.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01649.jpg

Since I took that pic, it has dried and I have scraped all of the excess silicone off of it and cleaned it up quite a bit. I don't have pics of that, tho. I did a leak test, and it does leak in one bottom corner, but I'm just going to cut that corner out and there will be the output of the wet-dry filter! How simple/ghetto is that?!

Here's my tube siliconed into the lid of the bottle that I was going to use for the auto top-off.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01645.jpg

And here's a random picture from my 29 gal FW planted tank. This is what happens when you put a light between your canopy and your HOB filters--Java Moss grows up the filter intake tubes and up out of the tank! And crap/mold/yellowish stuff grows in the filter o.O
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01639.jpg

Anyway, I'll upload more pictures some other time... I've gotta go now...

Thanks for the input, Matt!

Lemme know what you guys think!
Post InfoPosted 22-Feb-2007 23:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
aquapickle27
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Post InfoPosted 07-Mar-2007 04:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
poisonwaffle
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I tore down my 5 gal nano and put everything into the 20--substrate, LR, corals, etc. I got another 12lbs of sand and put it in the tank, so there's about 2" of sand... I'm still going to get another 6-12lbs some time when I can afford it and when the store has it in stock.

I got a little baby horseshoe crab for stirring my substrate, and a scooter blenny! I know that I should have waited until the tank was more mature, but the scooter blenny was on sale and he was SOOOO cute!!! I've got a decent amount of pods in there, and I'd been dumping brine shrimp eggs into the tank (using the baffles in the sump as a hatchery) for the last few weeks, so there's plenty of food for him right now. I've got some patches of hair algae that I can put frozen mysis in and hopefully he'll root around in there looking for pods and eat the mysis. I'll probably give the horseshoe crab to a zoo or aquarium when he gets too big (in 10 years or so!), but he'll be fine for quite a while.

I'm seriously contemplating saying "Screw MH!" and going with PC's... I dunno if I will tho... it's just an idea for right now...

I'll probably upload more pictures tomorrow
Post InfoPosted 08-Mar-2007 22:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
aquapickle27
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Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2007 04:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
poisonwaffle
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Sorry I haven't posted up pictures... I can't use FP from home, and my camera is being weird and doesn't want to work on school computers... I'll get it working sometime and upload them, tho...

I have officially decided to go with 2x23w 6700k CF bulbs, 2x 11w 50/50 (10,000k/actinic) CFs, and 1x 15w NO 18,000k. I know it's not a ton of light, but it should work. I'm going to mount them inside of a rain gutter chunk (as a reflector), and then mount the rain gutter inside a wooden canopy that I have yet to build. I'll have exhaust fans in the canopy, too. If I have space, I'll put another 1 or 2 23w 6700k bulbs, but I dunno if they'll fit... I still have to measure everything out.

All tank inhabitants are doing well so far! I've got the scooter blenny to eat live BBS!

I'll try to post those pictures up soon...
Post InfoPosted 12-Mar-2007 21:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Try to ween that scooter onto mysis, they have a better nutrient content that brine. Can't wait to see more pics.

Also, it sounds like a lot of daylight K on the tank. I'd want more actinic personally. Will help with coral colors and nuisance algae and whatnot.



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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2007 20:35Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
poisonwaffle
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I got the Scooter blenny to eat dead/frozen brine now, too! I'm going to get him some mysis sometime soon, too

I got another 5lbs of LR (3lbs for tank, 2lbs for sump), an Odyssey LED moonlight strip (LED's, 24" long, submersible... kinda like this one http://www.proaquatica.com/BM33.htm ), a brittle star, and 3 mushroom corals yesterday

Questions: Are moonlights the same wavelength as actinic? Can I leave the moonlights on for the entire photo period, and for an hour or two before and after the lights are on (I'd have like 8 hours of darkness that way)?

If the moonlights won't work as actinic, I think I'm going to replace 2 of the 6700k bulbs with 50/50 10k/actinic bulbs (probably 11w unless I can find any bigger ones)... how does that sound?

I've been thinking about my stock list for the tank. I'm thinking of having -

Fish:
-Scooter Blenny
-Perc clown
-Dwarf angel of some sort?

Inverts:
-SPS, LPS, and soft corals
-Horseshoe crab
-Turbo and Astrea snails
-Blue-leg hermits, other hermits
-Pistol shrimp (paired with blenny?)
-Coral Banded shrimp
-Short-spined urchin?
-Rose or Bubble-tip anemone for Perc to host with
-2-3 Camel back shrimp?
-One of them big feather dusters
-Gorgonians?

What do ya think? Could I add more fish than that? I'd really like some small-ish mid-water fish that's really active... I was thinking of getting a little yellow damsel or something, but damsels are too basic. Maybe a pair of firefish?

I'm going to post up pics sometime soon... I've been having comp problems at home (reformatted 3 times in the last 2 days... stupid Vista bootloader!), so I haven't been able to upload anything from there... hopefully I'll be able to upload all of my pictures to photobucket tonight, and I'll link them here tomarrow if I have time.

Lemme know what you think about my lighting and stock list ideas/questions...

Thanks!
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2007 21:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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If the moonlights won't work as actinic, I think I'm going to replace 2 of the 6700k bulbs with 50/50 10k/actinic bulbs (probably 11w unless I can find any bigger ones)... how does that sound?


This is the better option, I just think that all that daylight will cause colors to wash out/look unnatural. Moonlights aren't really strong enough to use in that fashion unless you had a lot more.

Most dwarf angels will eat corals, mainly the softies and LPS. The Atlantic pygmy is your best bet, but still risky.

Horseshoe crabs aren't great in captivity, especially small tanks.

Coral banded shrimp will probably tear apart any other ornamental shrimps.

Clown hosting anems might not do well in your light. Plus in a small space they can do damage to corals when they move around or grow or feel like reaching out a bit.

Camel shrimp aren't reef safe from what I've read. Can have a tendency to turn carnivorous and eat your corals. Try the peppermint shrimp instead, they'll also eat aptasia.

Do your research and make sure you get a photosynthetic gorgo...the nonphotosynths can be hard to keep.

A pair of firefish would work, just make sure the tank is covered. Your shrimp/goby pair would also work.





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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2007 01:13Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
poisonwaffle
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Yes, I am planning on doing some research... I really don't know where to look or what to get, though... that's why I'm asking around for ideas...

Yea, the moonlights do look a little un-natural... I'll pick up some 50/50's...

I guess I didn't know that about dwarf angels... forget that, then...

The horseshoe crab I got is a really tiny little guy (~1.5" body diameter), and they're slow growers, so I think he'll be fine for a while. I know he'll munch on corals when he gets about 6-7" in diameter, and I'll have to get rid of him or move him to a different tank then. I just wanted something to stir up my sand bed for now, and he was cheap and cute, so I got him o.O

I didn't realize that coral banded shrimp are predatory... I guess that makes sense... they are built to be predators. I guess I'll forget getting any other shrimp other than the coral banded...

Gah, I gotta go... I'll post up later...

Thanks for the help!
Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2007 22:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Reef Inverts by calfo and fenner is pretty good and I like Marine Fish by Scott w. Micheal. Those are two pretty good reference books IMO. The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Fenner is a pretty good alls around type book. Those are what I recommend most of the time.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2007 22:11Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
poisonwaffle
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Okay, I finally got my pics uploaded

Light parts:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01811.jpg

Bulbs layed out:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01814.jpg

One of the lights in a reflector:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01822.jpg

3 bulbs mounted:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01823.jpg

Hole for bulb:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01825.jpg

All of the bulbs in the fixture for test fit, you can see the mounts:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01828.jpg

Ends attached to fixture:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01826.jpg

The bulbs back out--securing wiring after test fit:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01829.jpg

Fixture on! A few of the bulbs broke during assembly (screw in CFs by the base, not the glass part!), so I've got a few weaker bulbs in and one missing. I did put one more bulb in later (took from sump):
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01832.jpg

On the tank!:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01833.jpg

View from above the tank:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01835.jpg

Another full tank shot:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01855.jpg

Pic of the scooter blenny at 1/500, @ 3.2 aperture, iso 100:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01838.jpg

All of the new stuff in the tank (rock, shrooms, brittle star):
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01858.jpg

Closer:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01859.jpg

The moonlight fixture (75 LEDs... I counted them!) turned up so you can see the LEDs:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01864.jpg

The tank with only the moonlights on:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01865.jpg

Well, there ya have it! What do ya think? Any other pictures that you want to see?

Lemme know what ya think!

TIA!
Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2007 21:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Good bit of DIY work there Waffle. Lookin' good. If you can find some screw in 50/50s I'd do all or most as 50/50.

Horseshoe crab? Coral banded? Let's see the sump too. Gimme whatcha got.

Looks good waffle



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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2007 00:25Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
poisonwaffle
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Clarification: I don't have a coral banded yet o.O

My sump looks rather bad (all 4200k and 6700k lights, crap silicone job, baffles aren't straight, tons of algae (which is alright in a sump, I guess), etc), but I guess I'll post pics up. I'll have to take some...

Thanks for the compliments

Btw, I can't really afford books right now, but I'll probably buy them sometime in a few months... thanks for the reccomendations
Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2007 14:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Everybody's sump looks bad . We still gotta share though.

I thought you were asking about where to look for research. I misread, sorry. But those are great books. Myabe your lfs will let you browse them at the store? That's always cheap.



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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2007 17:29Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
poisonwaffle
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That's a good idea... I do that every now and then, and they don't seem to mind...

I'll post pics of the sump up when I can

Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2007 21:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
poisonwaffle
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w00tness

I got 2x11w 50/50 bulbs yesterday (and salt, and more bluelegs and astreas)!

IMO the tank looks a LOT better with the 2 50/50 bulbs in place of the 2 4200k bulbs!

Wouldn't you agree?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01940.jpg

Here's the whole system w/sump...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01939.jpg

Closeup of the sump
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01918.jpg

LR prefilter thingy on the left side
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01932.jpg

Pump chamber
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01931.jpg

Inside the fuge
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01928.jpg

Focused on the glass on the fuge
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01927.jpg

Aptasia infested rock in fuge
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01926.jpg

Lighting/plumbing/cooling
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01936.jpg

Lighting/plumbing/cooling II
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01935.jpg

Duster in PVC
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01929.jpg

Other junk in stand by sump
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01938.jpg

Cheato in main tank
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01923.jpg

Brittle star in main tank
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01907.jpg

Full tank shot 14/1/07
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01940.jpg

And here's a random picture I took at the river the other day o.O
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/PoisonWaffle/DSC01954.jpg

What do ya think?

Btw, I got a package of mysis, too, and I fed that once. The scooter blenny seems to like them! The dude at the LFS discouraged me from buying them, and he said to feed only brine instead. Everyone has been telling me to feed mostly mysis and occasionally brine (due to mysis being more nutritious), so I decided to get it anyway. Methinks I'll feed the mysis about once or twice a week, and the brine on all of the other days. I also feed whatever doesn't get eaten to my 29 gal freshwater tank, and the fw fish don't seem to like the mysis as much as the brine...

Anyway, everything seems to be going well with the tank. I raised my SG to 1.026 (up from 1.022-1.023ish), and it seems to be better. The inverts seem happier

For a while I contemplated setting up a 10 gal frag tank, but dismissed it as being a silly idea for now... all of my corals are frags right now o.O

Do you guys think I need a little more sand in the main tank? Like another 1/2"-1"?

I'll probably be building a canopy this weekend, so you can look forward to pics of that

After I build the canopy, methinks I'm going to put another mag5 in the sump and have it pump to a spraybar across the front of the tank (blowing downward)... that'll give me 600gph of sump->tank flow, and I've got another 200gph of just flow around the tank. I think I'm also going to put a 200gph pump in the middle of my LR structure and have a spraybar running across the length of the LR with holes pointing in all directions... just to get some flow around there so I don't have any dead spots. What do ya think of that? Any suggestions on that?

Anyway, that's all for this update...

Lemme know what ya think!
Post InfoPosted 02-Apr-2007 21:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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More random flow is almost always a good thing.

I had a question....what's the red thing inside the stand?

Otherwise nice pics, and the tank does look better with some 50/50 lighting. I'd still want more blue, but that's opinion. Your sump isn't all that bad I think. Oh, and your brittle star is a serpent star which is, in fact, much better....I think the brittle stars are known to be a little more opportunistic than serpent stars. Like keep an eye on your small fish opportunistic.



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Post InfoPosted 02-Apr-2007 23:29Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
poisonwaffle
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The red thing is a 7w PC (10k)light that is there to put some side-light on the LR so I can use it as a pod factory (with the pods living in the algae)...

I guess I didn't realize that I had a serpent star instead of a brittle star... I guess that is a good thing. Thanks for pointing that out
Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2007 21:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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