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Alright, on Saturday, I'm pickin' up a 20 gal long tank!

Methinks I want to do a softies and LPS for corals, a few damsels or firefish for fish, and a whole bunch of random inverts...

Here's a few things that I'd like to put in the tank. I'm definately not going to try to fit ALL of the stock in one 20g tank, but this is the list of stuff I'd like to choose from. Any suggestions on compatibility and care and stuff would be appreciated

First off, hardware:
20g long tank w/10 gal sump/fuge
???gph ?????brand pump? (suggestions?)
I'd like to drill the back of the tank and set up an overflow into the sump
65 or 2x65w PC lights (don't wanna go MH...heat...)
150w Tronic heater
Coralife digital temp probe
Any other stuff I need?

Corals:
I like leathers
Various zoanthids
Xenia
GSP probably
1-2 anemones eventually...probably condy's or something cheap-ish

Non-Coral Inverts:
Cleaner or peppermint or camelback shrimp... haven't decided yet
1-3 scallops
1-3 brittlestars
1 choco chip star in fuge (already got him in my 2 gal nano-reef...moving him in the 20 when it's ready)
misc hermits (blueleg, rainbow, etc)
maybe a big duster?

Fish:
clowns?
damsels?
those one little pink schoolers that I forgot the name of ATM (will edit when I remember)
some sort of goby
maybe a blenny?

As you can see, I'm kinda lost for my tank plan right now

Any suggestions/comments/flames/rants/chat-access/help would be greatly appreciated

Can't help a whole lot with the pump, but I don't think you'll need anything over 300 gallons per hour. Something smaller would probably be what you need, unless you intend to have water going through the sump at a fast rate. Brands are a personal preference thing, but I'm happy with my Mag-Drives. I've heard some horrible stuff about Rios (oily fluid leaking out) so be advised that some people have had problems.

Honestly I'd dump the anemones. That probably isn't enough light for them, and they just have such poor survival rates in captivity.

What kind of scallops were you thinking about? Flame scallops are very common, but also are bad choices. They need immense amounts of food, more than most people can provide. I haven't seen any other scallops offered frequently in the trade.

Get damsels if you don't want any other fish types. For the most part, they're a nuisance kind of fish. Most of the common ones are as mean as dottybacks but lack the color and personality. At least, that's how I feel about them.

I'll offer more unwanted advice as you update.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

I was thinking of getting the little scallops with the red tissue...so I'm guessing they'd be the 'flame' ones. I can ask my supplier if he can get in any different kinds... he can usually get good stuff for really cheap prices

I was planning on sticking the anemone(s) up higher on the reef, like 3/4 the way up the tank. That way, they'd be closer to the light... I figured that would probably be enough. Methinks I'll have to do 2x65w PC's... 1x ain't gonna cut it...

I did a bit of rethinking on the fish, and I think I just want a clown (either perc or ocelaris, haven't decided), a goby (for the shrimp to be friends with), and a few firefish. Does that sound alright?

Also, I'm planning on 30-40lbs of LR, as I can get CURED LR for $3-5 per lb depending on the size of the piece

Thx for the help, Nick, I appreciate it

Anybody else got any ideas/comments?

i thought gobys were only ''friends'' with pistol shrimps

edit: you could try some waratah (as there known in aus) anemones which dont require light.

pump really is up to you, but id attach a scwd to it just for better water movement.

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''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''

Sounds good... I'll do some research on 'em

Thanks

Alright, I got the tank!

I set it up, filled it with water, and tested for leaks... and it's passed the test

I dechlorinated the water and I'm using it for waterchange water for my 29 gal planted tank right now. I'm gonna get the tank drilled this week, hopefully... then I'll set it up an' plumb it to the sump and whatnot..

I also have decided to go with a 150w MH fixture, but I may add a few 50/50 PC's if I need to.

Planned stock thus far-

Corals:
Leathers
Zoanthids
Shrooms
Xenia (a bunch in the sump for nutrient export)
Birdsnest
Montipora digitata
other random acros
BTA

Fish:
2x firefish
1-2x perc or false perc clowns
Maybe 1 dwarf lion

Non-coral inverts:
1-2 coral banded shrimp
maybe a big duster
1-2 brittlestars
1 scallop
_________

I've got 2 liters of phyto that I'll be running into the tank via a drip system, of which the output will be very close to the scallop, thus he will be able to eat! If he still starves, it'll be his fault, and I'll deal with the loss...

I'm planning on having the tank just FOWLR (other than the xenia in the sump) for a few months while everything stabalizes, and then I'll put in the BTA. When the BTA decides where he wants to stay, I'll start adding corals and stuff...

How's that sound?

TIA

EDIT - Methinks I'm gonna use a mag for the pump...

I have a few issues with the stock. Coral-wise, you could run into some issues. The toxic chemicals contained by many leathers, zoanthids, and mushrooms can seriously harm stony corals. Though they can be kept together, you'll need to make sure you space everything out well, and provide plenty of growing room between each coral/colony. The leathers especially can be worrisome, because many of them like to slough off their outer tissue as a cleaning mechanism. If this tissue lands on another coral, it could well kill it. You'll need to be very careful about how the current flows in the tank, to prevent things like this from happening. Another thing is that the SPS will like a lot of water flow, while the soft corals prefer more subdued current. Again, you'd need to plan that meticulously. Lastly, that sounds like you plan on a lot of corals for such a small tank. Be sure that they aren't all crammed together, or you will most definitely end up with war and death. Maybe trim down the list.

With the fish, I'd dump one firefish and the lion. Lionfish are heavy feeders and waste producers, and I can't think of a single species that grows to less than four inches. Even a four inch lion is more than capable of consuming a slim firefish, so that's another reason to drop it from the list.
Firefish do not seem to get along well with one another in smaller tanks, so you'll be taking a risk by adding more than one. You could keep a single firefish with a pair of false perc clowns, and they shouldn't pay it much mind.

Coral banded shrimp are confirmed to eat fish, so they may end up costing you in the future. Not only that, but unless you can buy a definite mated pair, one or both will die. They do not tolerate each other well, and fight to the death. I don't care for coral bandeds very much.

Lastly, just be sure you get a smaller type of brittle star. Some, like the green serpent star, grow large. And I've already warned you about the scallop. Be aware that they like to move around, so you'd have to follow it with the drip. And I can't see why you'd blame it for not getting enough food.

Sorry for tearing up your stock list and being a downer, but you don't want to have to pay out the nose for lost animals.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Alright, I've done more rethinking...

I'm definately skipping the scallop... there's no way I'll be able to keep it fed, and I'm not even gonna bother with it...

The plan was to have my stony corals higher up on the reef, toward the middle, and to have the soft corals near the bottom around the edge. That way if any of the soft corals do any shedding, the stuff won't get up to the stony corals...

The Xenia will stay in the sump... it's not going in the main tank, so that opens up a lot of space.

I'll probably just go with one coral banded shrimp then...

And I think I'll dump the lionfish idea...

Thanks

Honestly xenia isn't a great nutrient exporter, compared to macroalgae like cheatomorpha. You can do like me and grow both. I grow xenia to pad my pocket now and again, and the cheato to pull out nutrients. As far as the softies releasing toxins thing....I'm not ready to believe that on the scale people like to talk about. First it's not just their slime coat but dissolved toxins they are talking about. If you keep up with water changes and use carbon it shouldn't be an issue. I would wager a lot of species don't even do that at all, while some might be problematic. I've never had a problem with zoanthids, xenia, shrooms, and GSPs. I have a couple small leathers, and haven't noticed anything from them. However, if you are concerned about it, you could do a mixed reef with LPS near the bottom and in the shade, and the sps up top. LPS are the most colorful corals far and away anyways(ok so maybe that's just an opinion ).

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I do have a big wad of macroalgae (the hard curly stuff that looks like dried ramen n00dles ) in my 2 gal that I was gonna throw in the sump... I forgot to mention that tho...

And I forgot about running carbon. I guess carbon would definately help a LOT since I really don't want to use a skimmer (expense, risk of overflow (friend had a really bad experience and his skimmer malfunctioned and emptied the tank onto the floor, and then the skimmer came loose and knocked down his live rock structure, so all of his stock got smushed and went on the floor all dried out...bleh...), general hatred toward skimmers, and being cheap )... yea, that was a bit of an over-done (parenthesis) thing

Thanks, mattAY

No probs, but I would consider an in sump model of skimmer that if it overflows, it does so into the sump. I wouldn't really recommend trying to keep acros and other sps without one.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hmm...

I do have some time before a skimmer would become rather useful (when I start adding corals). I'll talk it over with the people in my reef club and see if I can get a good skimmer for cheap from any of them...

We'll see...

Thanks

okay heres what i did in my 20gallon high not much different.but i used and undergravel filter with powerhead and a bio-wheel filter. i have crushed coral on the first layer then live sand.i have live rock and 2 yellow tailed damsels and a clown(more to come). everything is great!!! and its benn 3weeks so far. NO CRASHanywho as fish go i woulda say go a pair or trio of clowns and maybe 1 or 2 damsels and then 1 blenny like a bicolor or a neon thats it really corals are going to need a lot of light so wait a bit till its established then go for low maintance ones. 1 star 2 is to many, scallops are hard to keep,condy's are real mean and if your hopeing that your clown will house in it they wont its to aggressive and not what they usually house in so look around and buy a cheap houseing one and enjoy it growing. other then that watch your ammonia hope to hear from you soon!!!

Bratt Boy ive been told that UGFs have no place in the marine aquarium.

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''All the clown fish and yellow tangs in the world cant save you now!''

Alright, I've got a bit of a new plan...

I got the MH, and it's REALLY bright! I'm gonna build a custom canopy for that and line it with mylar for the reflector.

I already got some corals (devil's hand leather, some misc zoas, birdsnest (doing surprisingly well under temp 7wPC + 50w halogen), and some other really low light sps that I forgot the name of--they're all in my 2 gal nano tank for now (until I get the 20 going)...

I'm gonna do a pair of clowns and a BTA, a pair of firefish, and maybe a random goby or something...maybe goby/shrimp pair...not sure. Definately doing a coral banded shrimp...

Gonna drill a 1" hole in the tank for the overflow, and use a mag5 as a return pump. The mag5 will prolly be a bit too much, but I can always valve it down...

And no, I'm NOT doing UGF in the tank...I'm just sticking with DSB

Thanks

i have crushed coral on the first layer then live sand.

You will be very sad to hear this, but your UGF wont be working too well in time. The crushed coral will slowly work its way to the top layer where your live sand is currently and your sand will be on the bottom layer and will be plugging your UGF.

I also agree, that UGF's have no place in a SW tank and there are much better ways to get your filtration.

Waffle, you puttin the DSB in the sump or the display? Cause 4-5 inches is a lot of sand in a 20L. JMO. Also, are you drilling the tank yourself? If so how do you plan on doing it? I think if you want to run the mag 5 open most of the way you will need two overflow holes, or one larger than 1". Sounds like a nice setup so far, can't wait to see it up and running.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Um, I was planning on having an inch or 2 of LS in the display tank, and 4-5 inches in the fuge/frag side of the sump.

I'm basically planning on splitting the sump into two parts--filter/heater part, and a fuge/frag area. I'll probably have some egg crate/pvc tables in there for the frags.

I'm doing 2x15w NO lights, 2 11w 50/50 PC's, and probably some LED's in the fuge side of the sump (which will be about 2/3 the way full)... so I think I'll have enough light in there to do a few easy-ish SPS frags before I put them in the display tank...

My supplier dude reccomended a mag 5 and a 1" bulkhead. He said that mag 5 would be a bit much, but that it could always be valved down. 1" sounded about right to me, 'cause IIRC one of my friends has a 125 with a 2" hole... don't remember what pump and how much flow he's got, but he's got SPS in there, so it's probably a lot...

I dunno...

Thanks for the help

Actually yeah, I went to RC and put into their overflow calculator and it recommended 1" for 500 GPH, and with head loss and what not a Mag5 will probably be a little less than that, so good call on that.

I thought it was the other way around. Don't you put the sticks in the sump after you frag them from what's in your display? But either way, I think that will be enough surely to keep them alive, especially up near the light. I don't have too much experience with the color sticks, so maybe DRO will have some comments on your grow out sump lighting. Sounds like you know what you're doing and have thought it out well.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

What do you mean by 'color sticks'?

What would be the problem with putting frags in a sump?