FishProfiles.com Message Forums

As the title says.. I did my 50% water change on my 110gal on sunday and once it was filled up i added my ferts into the tank, the next day the water was cloudy and two dead fish, today, i have 7 dead fish... Now the fish are just run of the mill so im not too concerend that they are gone, but 7 dead fish is a lot to loose especially when the miss's is getting fed up. I dont know what i have done differently, is it possible that i have added too much fert at one time to cause the departed? this is what i added.

1 1/2 tsp of KNo3
1 tsp of Potassium sulphate
Water conditioner
Streszime(sp)
about 3-5ml of Flourish excel
1 1/2 tsp of CSM+B

I took about 60gal of water out of the water colum
soaked my cermic diffuser in bleech / water for 20min then in to a decholorinated water bath for 30.

Ive done this every water change and nothing has happened.

any ideas?

How often do you add those ferts, once a week? I personally don't like to add over 10ppm of nitrate to a tank in one shot, but I doubt it would kill fish...might stress them a little bit.

It sounds like something happened to your bacterial colonies or you possibly had elevated ammonia if your tank got cloudy. Did you clean out your filters? Anyways, I'd continue to do water changes until it clears up. Test for ammonia and nitrite to eliminate/confirm those possibilities.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I've yet to kill fish using KNO3, I've managed to Kill Amano shrimp when I added enough to hit 160ppm for 3 days exposure.

If you add say 20ppm per week, there's no way it'll ever exceed 40ppm of build up if you do 50% weekly water changes.

That assumes that the plants will use zero ppms of NO3 also.

Adding KNO3 is distinctly and radically different than adding NO3 from fish waste breakdown.

People often assume and equate them, this is quite incorrect on many levels in terms of algae, health of the fish and general biology.

Generally, weekly water changes help if there is any one thing you can do.
From there, providing good plant conditions for growth.

CO2 can kill fish if too high.
What is Streszime(sp)?
I assume you mean Simizine? For algae?
Stop adding it, it's a nasty herbicide.



Regards,
Tom Barr

No i didnt change / clean the filter this water change, i usually do it once a month.. Its an ehiem pro 2 2028. Stressime or however its spelled is from big Al's. They recommend adding it to the water every waterchange, it adds benificial bacteria to the water for setting up your biological filters... I did another water change lastnight we'll see the progress tonight. THanks guys for your input.

shawn

Stress Zyme isn't harmful. It isn't really all that helpful in an established tank either but shouldn't kill anything. It might cloud the water if you overdose it but I still don't think that would have any effect on the fish. Are you doing water changes with tapwater? More than a few tanks have been completely wiped out because the water company changed something and didn't inform aquarists. Even if it wasn't normally harmful a 50% waterchange with different water could stress out and kill some fish.

If you do routine weekly water changes, clean filter once a month etc, you are in good shape.

That's a normal routine.
There's not much difference in work to do a 10-% vs a 50-70% water change if you use a Python type water changer(Or your own dIY version), just takes a bit longer is all, but the fish health is tremendously improved when you do large weekly water changes.

I think some worry about large water changes but if you have the same temp and have been doing them routinely, I've never found any issues even after a month of no water changes. But if the plants are growing well, that makes a big difference also.

Regards,
Tom Barr

From the looks of things it really doesn't look like the ferts were to blame for the losses. You seem to have a really good matince schedule.

You are even running light on the Flourish Excel. In the 120G tank at work I does 15ml. I have had some problems with too much of this stuff but I can't imagine that this was the cause when dosing 3-5ml.

What kind of plants are you running in this tank?
With how much light?
What kind of fish do you have in there?
How old is this tank?
Do you do a heavy gravle vac with every water change?

I think I remember you asking some questions awhile back but I don't have a good concept of time lately.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Shawn,

Out of curiosity, I wonder if you would replicate the water change and your dosing. However, I would like to see your tank readings before and after the water change.

pH - NO3 - NO4 - K - GH - KH

I am also curious as to the species that you lost in this episode.

I routinely do 50% water changes 3 to 4 times per week so I would discount that as a problem unless you had a problem with matching temperature or if your water utility has recently added a weak, food grade acid to retard microbial and algae growth.



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Hey All
Ok First off i appreciate everyones input. Im sorry about the delay with all of this, since it is the holiday season its very busy. So i have done two water changes since the whole episode and i did a nitrate test.. it was WAY off the charts. like 4 or 5ppm. I have no idea why it spiked the way it has. Maybe i have stressed out the fish when i have done the water change, i just bought my python a few weeks ago maybe im adding the water too fast and its throwing the water colum way off whack. Il have the test results at the end of the weekend i am off for some family business.

I am running approx 3.5wpg on a two timer cycle with 6700dg lights in one setup and 7800k(i think) in the other with a total "full sun" on for 4hrs

My plants are amazon swards, hygros, And a few stem plants.. sorry guys im not too plant technical. This tank has been going for about a year now with the new ehiem filter, but the tank itself has been setup for the past 4 years. Just within the past year have gotten serious with the plants. Im also running about 25ppm Co2

My Fish are just your average pet store mix, Rummie Nose tetras, Harliquin Raspora's, Neons, Balloon Mollies, Dalmation mollies, Few Algae eaters.

So i lost a total of 25 fish because of the Nitrate spike. Thats after two water changes, A bit of aquarium salt, and Nitrasorb.

My Ammonia was 0ppm. I knew right away once i did my Nitrate test that was the cause... but i am at a loss for why my tank had it, with Nothing added or removed from the "established tank" So ill post the test results of my tank's condition after the weekend.. but any input on what ive said would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all!

Hi,
I have to assume that your "4 or 5 ppm" is a typo.
Unless you have some of the most sensitive fish in the
world 4 or 5 is nothing. Most of us that are really
"into" planted tanks keep the Nitrate reading between
a 10 to 20ppm reading.
About everything I've read, and my own experience shows
that when the Nitrate readings are around 40+ it is time
for some serious housekeeping. Simply changing water will
not work. It will dilute the reading but it will spring
right back as THE cause of it is all the dirt in the
gravel.

Regular aquarium maintenance includes a 10% or more water
change AND vacuuming a non-planted section of the aquarium.
Mentally divide the tank into four sections and with each
water change, throughly vacuum a different section of the
tank. That way, if you did it weekly, you would have
cleaned the entire tank and given each section three weeks
to recover.

I'm not too clear on the lighting arrangement. The lights
should be on for a total period of about 10 hours.
I also use timers on mine, and I have one compact
fluorescent 65 watt bulb (30G tank) that comes on, and stays
on for the full 10 hours, and a second 65 watt bulb that
comes on at 10am and goes off at 2pm.

Hope this helps...
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for the input frank, yeah it probibly is a typo on the nitrate level, it was bascially at the lowest level on the colour card that came with the test kit.. when i do my water change i do vacuum most if not all the gravel i can.

As for the lighting, my lights are on for 10hrs a day one set of the Compact florecent is on for the full time. Then a few hrs in the second light strip comes on for 4hrs then shuts off giving you the cycle of "high noon" its about 384 watts that the unit puts out, with my tank at 110 gal, it works out to 3.49 watts / gal.

Shawn,

Are you testing for nitrItes or nitrAtes? Unless you purchase the deluxe test kit, you generally just get the test for nitrItes.



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

You should not see any NO2 nor NH4 in any test readings.

NO3, as I've stated many times, for many years, adding it from KNO3 vs fish waste and cycling are two different animals, I've over fertilized by a factor of 10x for PO4, for Fe/traces, for GH, for NO3 without any fish issues.

Wild Altums(aren't they all?), tetras, catfish, Discus and apistos never have had any issues at levels in excess of 30-40ppm as well, but I keep things at the 10-20ppm range typically. If it creeps up to 30-40ppm , simply doing a large water change will address any errors in dosing, overfeeding etc.

Unlike the test kit, the accuracy if a water change, assuming the tap water is NO3 free or close to it, stable etc,is far higher.

Many, if not most all NO3 test kits at the hobby grade are well......junk. I suggest calibration with a known stanard to make sure they are accurate.

Given your background, that's not likely.
A Lamotte NO3 test have been shown consistently to be fairly accurate. They are about 50$ also.

So you are left with some assumptions etc, but the basic approach for you is more likely to work in the long run, spend more time enjoying and having a garden in there if you increase the water changes to 50% weekly, dose 2-3x a week with cheap inorganic ferts, see www.GregWatson.com for those and add dechlor after each water change.

Cranking up the CO2 can harm fish if you go too far, but sometimes algae appears due to lower or non stable cO2 levels.

Keep on top of the CO2 and do the above routine, you should never lose fish unless it's a new one, doesn't eat, poorly quarantined, jumps out etc.

Unexplained deaths are hard to determine.
But comapring what's bene done a lot by hobbyists will tell you some clue as to what it's not.

It will not tell you what it is though.

The advice I'm giving is really focused on longer term health and plant issues. That will reduce the risk of such issues in the future.

Regards,
Tom Barr