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Hi,
After reading the thread that contained the link to Tom
Barrs' Estimative Index of Dosing, I thought I'd give it
a try.

I have a 30G tank, injected CO2, and two 8800K, 65 watt,
compact flourscent bulbs on it. The bulbs are on timers
and one is on for 10 hours while the other is on for 4
hours in the middle of the ten hour period. The substrate
is 100% flourite and I use a UGF with a power head on it.
I'm using Grants Stump Remover, Epsom Salts, and Fleet
enema. I have Flourish that I will use until I can get
ahold of some Floursh "Trace."

I deliberately let the tank get out of hand, and today,
I overhauled it. In the first picture you can see a band
of low growing, "brillo pad" like green algae, along the
front of the tank. I removed all the plants, cleaned the
gravel while draining the tank with a Python brand vacuum.
Then I went through the plants trimming them and culling
them. I threw handfuls away.

The second picture shows the pile of plants that I went
through.
The third picture shows the tank about a half hour
after replanting it. As you can see, I need a visit
from the "queer eye for the straight guy" of aquascaping.
I have virtually no sense of the techinques involved.
All of my tanks look like "grow out" tanks.

I will post a fourth picture in the morning while the
second light is lit.

Frank


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-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

This is the pile of plants that I went through. Some of
them were in excess of 14 inches.

Frank


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-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

And this is a picture taken about a half hour after the
replanting...


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-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Frank,

Just one question: was it fun to let the tank get "out of hand"? How long did it take you?

Good luck with the experiment! Can't wait to hear the results. What were you using beforehand? I've been using a modified EI myself on my non-CO2 tanks and so far it's been working quite well. But I can't compare it with anything since I've been using it ever since I switched to live plants. I just set up a DIY CO2 on one of the tanks yesterday so I'm doing a cool new experiment myself.

Cheers,
-Paulus

-P

Hi Frank,

SOunds like a plan

My first reaction when I saw the original tank picture was OMG

This must have been quite some work to get this all out.

A few words of caution:

-It could be that you overdid the removal a little. I think you might be on the medium planted side now. Keep that in mind for the amount of fertilizer you add, as usually given values are for heavy planted tanks. Or, add more plants .

- I would suggest that you remove the existing algae in the tank as well, there seems to be quite a bit on your hardware. Having algae already established makes it easy for new algae to form.

Otherwise, have fun and keep us posted,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A possible convert

I have Flourish that I will use until I can get
ahold of some Floursh "Trace."

Why? The regular Flourish is better suited as it has a complete range of micro nutrients. The Trace just has the micros that are needed in very small quantities. Not enough FE for example would be one problem with just using the Trace.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi,
Well, here is the tank the next day at 0800:
The poor fish need sunglasses and a place to hide.
The black skirt tetras are pale and not to be seen.
Only the camera hogs (the cherry barbs) are out and
about. However, they all ate with appetites this morning
so I'm not concerned about their health.

Letting the tank get out of hand was "easy" with my
schedule - Susan is in the hospital, and I'm doing her
job at work as well as my own, then I shower, change, and
drive into to town to be with her for a few hours then
home, laundry, dishes, the news/Jay Leno mono log, and then
bed. It was hard to see the tank that way though.

That may be a good point about the quantity of ferts.
I will have to get a set of measuring spoons just for the
tank, and perhaps, half the dosages.

I had read in earlier threads that Flourish "Trace" was
what I'd wanted to use, and since my bottle did not
specifically say that, I assumed that what I had was not
what I needed. However, in rereading the bottle you are
correct Ben, and I'll stick with it. I suspect that I
have plenty of Fe available as the substrate is pure
Fluorite.
Frank


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-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank,

I for one think that the tank pre-makeover looked pretty awesome. I like the jungle set-up - it's a cool second tank kind of setup to have in addition to a pampered main tank. The overhanging stems with roots dropping down seems very natural, it'd make a great set-up for small gourami or other shy types of fish.

But alas, it's gone now. Looking forward to more updates on growth. The ambulia seems to have already straighteded itself out

---

Back in the saddle!

Thanks Frank.
Very cool experiment. I love experimenting. I will be definitely keeping track of this as I think you will answer many of my questions without me having to ask them. Already I know I do not need to find flourish trace, but rather flourish will have the traces I may be missing.

Sorry to hear your wife is in the hospital, I hope it is not something serious. And I hope she is home with you soon.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

As you can see, I need a visit
from the "queer eye for the straight guy" of aquascaping.

Anyone on FP you thinking about?

Anyway, I might have missed this, but what fert routine did you have before trying the EI routine.

It could be that you overdid the removal a little. I think you might be on the medium planted side now. Keep that in mind for the amount of fertilizer you add,

I understand where LF is going, but remember the fert levels will only be high for alittle while because your going to do big WCs once a week. If anything when the plant mass grows increase ferts to high-end of routine this will assure that they have enough. We all know that po4 and no3 don't cause algae, right

My Scapes

The replant looks great Frank

That ambulia is right where it'll take advantage of the most light and get a good growth spurt too.

I hope the Mrs gets well soon.


The Amazon Nut...

Hi,
Well 2 days later, and you can see the plant growth.
I swear you could actually watch these things grow!
It won't be long before the plants reach the surface
and start to form the canopy.

I'm concerned that I've changed nothing but the amount
of plants (starting with fresh tops) and have the same
problem. I can see small tufts of the green, "brillo pad"
algae starting up in the gravel. I'm calling it
"Brillo Pad" cause it reminds me of a soft steel wool.
It's now where near as soft to the feel as hair algae
and it seems to thick to be staghorn.


Frank


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-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

See some nice growth especially on the cabomba. Well algae might be a battle with that kind of mass, but it should bulk up quickly.

Frank is this your main tank or a tank your playing around with?

My Scapes

Wow, all of those plants look really healthy, especialy the Cobomba. For some starnge reason i liked the very first pic best minus the algae. I love tanks that look like jungles. Did you throw all of those cuttings in pic 2 away? I will just have to stick to my low light java fern jungle plan.

Hi,
At our home in the mountains, I will have two 240G tanks.
One will be an African Rift tank and the other will be
a heavily planted South American tank. This is my
experimental tank. I'd rather learn in a small tank than
have a disaster in a big one.
Yes, I did throw away all the plants that I did not use.
The one stem plant, just to the right of the Ambulia,
develops pink leaves nearest the light but down below,
near the substrate, the leaves are very sparse and
the stems become woody. It's a constant snip off the tops
and pull out the bottoms replacement thing that goes on.

Before this, I kept track of the pH & KH, and tested
for nitrates. I kept the nitrates around 10 with the
stump remover, and used baking soda as necessary for the
KH. As was mentioned in another thread, I tried and
dismissed the use of a glass diffuser and kept with the
internal reactor. It does "clog up" as a form of algae
forms within the passages, and when I notice the pH
climbing, I remove the reactor and clean out the passages
with a pipe cleaner. At the time I purchased the diffuser,
I was unaware that they came in sizes, and told the folks
I had a G tank, and the one that they sent doesn't work
worth a hoot.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi,
After two weeks...
This is a picture of the same tank after pruning the ambula
way back. It had grown from the center out to the sides in
layers sometimes three thick. It was shading the rotila
so that it was barely growing. I've trimmed the rotila
and it is starting to dwarf and I may encourage that type
of growth so that it does not over take the crypts.

While the "brillo pad" algae still remains, it did not
seem as thick nor plentiful.

Frank


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-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Frank,
How do you dose Fleet enema (100 mL of solution contains: monobasic sodium phosphate 16 g and dibasic sodium phosphate 6 g)?

Thank you,
D

Very cool you are giving the Tom Bar El a try.

Very impressive growth!

Makes life much simplier if you just dump and go with out testing everything. Then just re set the tank.

In terms of your scape I would say find a nice rock or DW for something to look at.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi,
I'm dosing 1 teaspoon full of the Fleet the same as for the
Stump Remover, and Epsom Salts, 1 teaspoon full each.
On the "off" day, I'm adding 1ml of Flourish.

The "hardscape" is a piece of black lava that I picked up
in New Mexico.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I see it now. Doesn't really jummp out at you. I thnk a nice thin DW would look nice in there.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric