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Hello. I want to start a log that will beneift my 38 Gallon Planted Tank as I am new to the hobby and I hope you can help and encourage me along the way.

This is my 2nd tank. My first one was started in Jan and is a 29G community with some low light plants.

This 38G (36x12x19) was bought used & Tank-Only. It was started about 2-3 weeks ago. The equipment I purchased was a Penguin 350 Bio-wheel and 250W stealth Heater. With little expense available for lighting, I resorted to buying a two of these 39W Agri-bulb T5's]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/High-Fidelity/agri-bulb39w.jpg[/link] from a local Hydroponic Growers Supply store. I hope they will work for me unitl I can purchase a proper lighting system. I calculate they give me a theoretic 2.1 wpg if they are useful. These are housed in a [link=DIY gutter strip. I need to come up with some ends and I have a sheet of Mylar to affix on the underside if that will help any. This sits on a standard glass top.

As for Ferts and co2 and the rest... This is where my questions come in.

1) Besides my FW master test kit, phosphate, GH/KH kits.. Which other test kits do I need?
2) I got a bottle of Multipurpose Plant Supplelment which I was told is for micros (should I use this at this point) or instead buy which ferts?? macros?
3) I have a DIY co2 system ready to build with 2L bottle, check valve, tubing and ingredients. As for Diffusion, I intend to either leave the tube in the tank,
or insert it into the filter intake as Ive seen others do. Will I need to take out the biowheels to reduce aggitation?? And how will that affect my nitrates?

Substrate is 30 lbs pool filter sand (Nepheline Syenite) 1" - 2.5"

Current Livestock
- 1 red platy
- 3 Ghost Shrimp
- 16 Neon Tetras
- 3 ottos went in Monday. 1 died yesterday

Current Plants
- Crazy Growing Hornwort
- Corkscrew Val (I believe)
- Cabomba
- Crypt Wendtii
- and 1 withering Unidentified plant

Readings were as of Monday (2-3 weeks in)
7.7 pH
78 deg
O Ammo
0.4 NITRiTE
10 NITRaTE
1.0 Phosphate

I put in a piece of driftwood yesterday also. Had to screw it to some slate so it would sink. Was in tub for about a week or two and I saw no tannis and got impatient.

Current Tank Shot -> HERE

Any Help or Comments would be appreciated, as I am Inspired by many of your tanks and am enjoying the planted aspect so far.




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How far does the world need to decompose before we need a superhero?

Hello HiFi, and welcome to the log world

I am happy that you seek advice here in your attempts to create your first real planted tank. I will do my best to encourage you, but given that you have read a few logs here before (I hope you skimmed through mine as well) you know that it can get a little rough sometimes. All in the interest of the tanks, of course.

To get started, let me chart down some thoughts about your initial entry in this log, from top to bottom and in no particular order of importance.

It was started about 2-3 weeks ago - why didn't you start to ask your questions then?

a Penguin 350 Bio-wheel - Yup, as you anticipate later in your thread, I am not too wild about the large air contact of the tank water in the bio-wheel when you plan to add CO2. Let's hear from the others what they think.

250W stealth Heater - Nice

two of these 39W Agri-bulb T5's - Hm, I don't know what temperature rating (K value) they have, can you find out? It looks pretty bright in your tank, but that is not a sign that the light would be good for plants. Also, your 2.1wpg are less efficient than 2.1wpg from a fixture that includes a reflector over the bulbs.

Which other test kits do I need? - if the kit includes ph then I would say you are covered. Is this a liquid kit?

I was told is for micros (should I use this at this point) Well, when you add fish to a tank - do you start feeding them weeks later? Plants are the same, they need their food, in particular in a sand substrate that holds nothing for them. Micros are good (tell us more about that bottle), but sure you will need macros as well. You seem to have N (Nitrate) and P (Phosphate - btw, where is this coming from? ), but you will need to be able to provide a stable level of N, P, and K (Potassium) as macros, Seachem Flourish is a line of products you may want to look into, also you should read a little more in our logs for loads of details on ferts.

insert it into the filter intake as Ive seen others do - tetratech is the specialist for that, he also knows its dangers with large bubbles hitting the rotor of the filter. You may want to add an airstone at the end of the tube to get small bubbles.

Substrate is 30 lbs pool filter sand (Nepheline Syenite) 1" - 2.5" - Not a fan of this at all, except if you are planning to plant very little into the substrate and most plants onto rocks and you driftwood. You probably know that you are making your life harder than if you had used some form of gravel.

Current Livestock - Wouldn't you agree that your tank is still cycling? Not too happy with your decision of adding this many fish (and the species Neons and Otos in particular). Why did you do that?

Current Plants - Hornwort is great for the tank at this stage as it will suck up nutrients like mad. All others will (IMHO) ave problems in your sand substrate. And the mystery plant looks like Narrow (or maybe Needle) Leaf Ludwigia to me.

Readings were as of Monday (2-3 weeks in) 0.4 Nitrite - You are cycling. What are you doing to cycle the tank? Did you add something like Bio Spira? Again - where does the P come from? I assume you overfeed.

...and got impatient Never a good move (in general, not specific to the driftwood addition), we all tend to get impatient, but resisting that urge is what will get you the furthest in the long run.

That concludes our journey through your first entry. Let me know what you think,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

There is a lot to talk about in your post. First I like how you did your lighting. I am all about DIY stuff. Way more fun!

Second. Lets talk about your substraite. If you want to do sand. I would put a layer of good stuff under it. That way you can grow plants like swords and crypts much better. I would do this before you let things get too carried away. Or if you don't feel like messing with it then I would go with plants that don't need to be in teh substrate. Stuff like java fern and anubias. Over all the tnak looks pretty sharp. Have fun with it. Some day you will have a jungle in there. Keep us up dated. It is much fun to see tanks grow in. Also don't be afraid to ask questions here. There are tons of people with great amounts of information about plants on this site.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Originally I did not intend to do planted at all, in this tank. It was one of those Impatient things which you mentioned. I know Ive done some things in the wrong order.
Originally I had 2 platys in the tank with some ghost shrimp. When I decided to get some plants, I told the LFS my nitrates were at about a 7-8 and Ammonia and NitrItes were barely visible they said I was on my way. They did tell me I should of put these plants in before the fish though. I Should post here about which order I can do it in and when, instead of doin lots of reading here and going buy what they say. There is a lot of variables in this hobby to that alter the progress. The LPS werent very knowledgeable and the LFS just Sold me.


I'm not sure why I have phosphates ?? Not even sure what they are.
My GH was 161ppm and my KH was 107ppm when I checked the with the other test kit I got on the weekend.

I may be overfeeding a bit since I got the neons and ottos. Is this why I have .50ppm NO2's?
I can remove the ottos to my 29G that is near or stocked already.

(29G)
20W Perfecto Hood, 200W stealth, and also Pengiun 350BW, and about 20 lbs Black medium gravel.
- 2 clown loaches. I know,I know
- 2 Dwarf Flame Gouramis. 1M 1F
- 1 Red Platy. M
- 5 Pengiun Tetras
- 1 Clown Pleco
- 2 Ottos (got 5, 3 for 38G)
* 1 Anubius nana tied with fishing line to mopani
* 2 Hygros
* some floating Cabomba

My platys were cycling my 38G, when she gave birth to 14 fry in it. I got a 10G tank with an older topfin HOB and some gravel from the 29G in a nylon. So far so good for them.

A lot has happened since my first tank in mid-Jan...
I know I have some decisions to make. I'm not sure which moves I can make safely, and what I should do next. I could give away the penguin tetras if I had to make room in the other tank.

I'd like to keep the 38 Planted and get rid of the substrate if it wont help me. Ive seen flourite in the LPS and might consider that. I hope all goes well and I dont lose anything.
Help please !

_____________________________________________
How far does the world need to decompose before we need a superhero?

HiFi,

Hm, I don't want to panick you or what, but I have few thoughts about the current stage of your tank:

You are in the middle of cycling! You had initially 2 fishies in there, 2 in a 38G tank. That didn't do anything for a biofilter. Now you have what - about 20, and now a filter for this amount of waste will have to build. If I am right then your Neons and Otos are in danger.

About the substrate: I think you basicall have two options here -

1) Keep the sand and adjust your options of plants accordingly (plus all other things, like deep vacuuming is not an option in sand)
2) Change to another substrate as soon as possible, which will mean to start all over again

No matter what you decide upon, make sure that this is really what you want, at least for a while (months to years). For example: If you really would like a planted substrate but are afraid to go through the trouble of starting over then pull through with it anyway. I know I would be afraid, but that wouldn't stop me.

I guess that will make your head spin enough for now, but I have one more thing: Read up on Macro and Micro fertilizers for plants as in one form or another they will need it to survive. Then you will also know what Phosphate is .

And don't give up, we gonna help you.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The bulbs are fine.

The mystery plant is Ludwigia Repens.

Do not just stick the Co2 tube in the tank - useless. Get a small porwerhead and stick into the intake or get a cheap glas diffuser, they're only about $10.

That sand is going to be a living nightmare to keep clean.

You need a lot more plants.

Once the Co2 is up and running (which should be sooner rather then later) you will need to add KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate) and KH2PO4 (Mono Potassium Phosphate) regularly as well as the micros.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Check out GregWatson.com I think it is for the Pot. Nitrate and Pot. Phos. As for the other stuff get a hold of some Seachem Flourish.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well, After Saturday I'm on holidays for a week.

I will either keep the sand and find which plants will most likely grow for me, also move the Hygros in from the other tank and add some more.
I now have a bottle of Seachem Flourish and I added one dose if Micros Thursday morning.
OR
Transfer some of my fish and all the plants to my the 20Watt 29g for the time being. Throughout the week I'll
drain/remove the sand and change substrate to 2 bags of ???... Flourite or natural colored gravel.
Then start the cycle over with 2 platys. Would the Pengiuns tetras be good to add there also???

I'm thinkng of starting over and want to know if that would be my best option being a beginner.
I'm not wanting nightmares of cleaning, and my plants not working out with the sand.

I will get a glass diffuser on the weekend.

Headspin slowly winding up...



_____________________________________________
How far does the world need to decompose before we need a superhero?

HiFi,

Here is what I would do first: As it seems that you lean towards change in substrate, sleep over it and see if you feel the same way tomorrow. If so, then do it.

I am always scared stiff when I perform major changes in my tanks, but I do them anyway (for better or worse).

As a new substrate, any common one will do, except plain gravel. If you get gravel then you should add Laterite to the bottom 3rd layer of it. I would also say that the substrate should be at least 4" high, maybe a little lower in the front and higher in the back, or you may even want to try to sculp valleys and hills.

"Parking" your fish in other tanks sounds like a good idea, it you have the space (and remember to stay on top of water changes in these tanks). To avoid a loss of all cycled objects I propose the following:

- Keep tank water from this tank in buckets.
- Run the tank's filter in one of these buckets, best would be one with a flat wall to hang the filter onto. If that is not possible, try running it on your other tank as an addition. This way the beneficial bacteria in the filter will stay alive.
- Put the tank's plant in a bucket as well, with a heater. They will survive in there for at least 24 hours without a problem, maybe even much longer.
- Empty the tank completely, add new substrate, refill, add plants again, add filter, and add first group of fish (small) - 2 platies will be fine

Maybe others have more input, maybe it is even worth to create a separate thread in the "General Freshwater" forum focussing on the substrate change.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well Its done!

It was a pain to remove the sand and start over but in the end it will be a better result.
The 38 was drained & Cleaned.

The plants were removed and put in other established tank. My 2 penguin 350's would not fit side by side in the 29g, so I managed to keep the filter going in a BIN with the hornwort and neons.

The Flourite was messy. LPS sold out, LFS had only 1 brown & 1 red]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/High-Fidelity/FlouriteMix.jpg[/link] left. I was expecting a BIG Chocolate looking mess after filling. After giving it a basic rinse with a strainer and bowl it was not as bad as I thought -> [link=Here

I started to add some plants this morning, as it cleared up after a
partial water change. This was the new Hygro difformis that came with a large Hitchin snail.

The rest were carefully placed back in there along with the 2 red platys to help get the cycle started again. Current

Neither 2 LPS or 2 LFS had co2 diffusers without the Kits. So my DIY setup this week will use the Airstone/Bell Method for now using This Dish. Any tips on the co2/bell would be appreciated.



_____________________________________________
How far does the world need to decompose before we need a superhero?

HiFi,

Sorry, I know nothing about the bell, but you did an awesome job on the tank .

I am sure it must have been a pain in the neck and rather stressful to perform all these changes, but in the long run you will not regret it.

One thing: more plants, many more. Even if they don't fit your final vision of the tank and may make it look less pretty, they will help establish the tank faster and allow you to add some fish sooner (and help in reducing algae issues). How about adding lower groups of Wisteria to the front and middle parts as well?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Congrats on the change over. YOu must have did a much better job rincing than I did when I set up my tank. I had chocolate milk for about a week. Since then I learned better ways to rince the stuff out.

How bad was the red stuff? Every time I look at it it makes me nervous.

Also I am with LF as with adding more plants. Find something fast growing and cheap and just crame it in there.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

The lack of proper rinsing somehow helped it not go too cloudy, but everytime I plant I get a small chocolate mushroom cloud

Tommorrow I'm taking the kids to the park if its nice. We might stop in to the LPS and get more wisterias. Can I just trim the new ones down to make it look better? How long will I keep the new ones in there to help establish?

It looks even clearer today as I can spot out many more snails on the substrate and in the leaves.





_____________________________________________
How far does the world need to decompose before we need a superhero?

I added 6-7 more wisteria clumps. I also brought home a nice looking nana and some java moss which are nearly impossible to find around here.

I fueled up my first co2 mixture in a 2L gatorade bottle on Wednesday. Only 2 hours later I started getting bubbles.
It was variable at first but steady at about 1 bubble every 6-8 seconds now. No diffuser as of yet, but I tested some methods readily available.
A standard Airstone - nothing
A Limewood Airstone - very few, if any, tiny bubbles over about 8 seconds.
A Bell which is currenty holding the co2 bubbles.

My pH has declined and KH stayed the same. Not sure if this implies my co2 level went from 3ppm to 7ppm using a co2 chart. I hope its working at least slightly until I can order a proper diffuser. As for diffusion I'd like opinions on a few Diffusers

1) Poly I assume
or
2) Glass Helical
or any others you guys might suggest.
Both these will end up costing me about $30-40 CAD dollars after shipping and duty.
3) Another option was to purchase this Marineland Maxi-Jet 600 at my Local Big Al's for the same price. I'd rather not have a big bulky DIY reactor unless the end result largely outweighs the first 2 options. If so, is this Powerhead enough to do the trick?

Here is how it stands now - 38gal

On a ligher note. (I guess)
During our visit to get the difformis earlier this week... my daughter picked out a pair of white mollies for her 5 Hex tank. When we got home we noticed that there was about 8 guppy fry swimming along the bottom of the tank. So I stuck the mollies in with the cycling platysin the 38, until I got out the lucky 7 fry to add to the 10g tank.

Forgetting about the new mollies in the planted 38g until yesterday. They have managed to drop at least 8-10 white molly fry in there. This is the second time this tank had fry birthed in the early stages of its new cycle. Not sure If I can get them all out into the 10G with all that wisteria they like to hide in. I believe I'm done with the livebearers after this.


_____________________________________________
How far does the world need to decompose before we need a superhero?

Holy Wisteria Heavens

or, very soon I can shout out: Holy Livebearer Heavens



Very nice HiFi. You are doing great things. Jamming the tank with wisteria is the right move. If your water conditions (CO2) and fertilizers are right then you will see it take off very soon. If you go back to my log and look at the first couple of weeks then you will see how quickly this plant grows (although I had more water sprite, not as pretty but an even faster grower). Good job

About the diffuser: I ordered exactly the one that is your option number 2. Actually, I ordered the small and the large one of that page, and I ordered 2 each. If you want to know more about it go to page 74 (I think) of my log.

What are your current ph and KH values? You know how to find out about the CO2 ppm, right? Just in case, Here is the link to the table that cross-references ph and KH (scroll down on page).

Have fun,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Holy Wisteria Heavens

LF,
I think that's an understatement!

HiFi,
Now that you have a good handful of it(an other understatement). You might want to try to start some low growers of it too!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric