FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Has anyone had any experience with the substrate available at www.aquariumplants.com

I was thinking about possibly getting some but thought i would check and see if anyone else has used it before.

Any additional info on it?

Here is the link:

http://www.AquariumPlants.com/Freshwater_Aquarium_Plant_Substrate_p/ss.htm

†Aquapickle†

Hi,
That's a pretty big investment, and one that you will
be paying on for years to come as you replenish the
liquid and capsules.

Before you go there, it might be helpful to know your
goals for the tank, its size, the lighting, and types
of plants that you are planning on, including the fish
that will be living in the tank. The water chemistries
would be helpful as well.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

As Frank stated it is certainly going to be a ongoing thing, they certainly want you to buy not only the Substrate but the continuing extras that will be required.

The problem could easily be if you decide to use it and the ongoing expenses becomes too much will other products work with that substrate.

I also would like to know a lot more about your tank and what you intend to have in that tank.

Here is an excellent plant site and I think you might be able to find some one there who knows about that product, its uses and ongoing costs.
http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/index.php


Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith


Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Oh. So this substrate is ineffective without the other ferts and stuff?

Is Eco-Complete the same way?

†Aquapickle†

Most of the Substrates river pebbles etc are just a medium to hold the plants upright and decoration. Naturally they will require some type of fertilization for the plants to grow satisfactorily.
Yes the gravel does hold fish waste etc but all plants require far more than that.

For the 45lt tank
I only use Seachem liquid ferts and the plants mostly crypts were going along well with no problems at all.
Then I added Flourish 1ml twice a week and for the first time I have flowered a Crypt nevilli (photos coming soon)

Now by saying all that it is not only the substrate that counts it is also the correct ferts and quantities to use for your plants that makes grow a lot better.


Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith


Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

aquariumplants.com has great plants, but their substrate is the same as soil master select only more expensive.

Eco-complete and Seachem Fluorite contain some iron, but they're otherwise pretty neutral to start as well. They have high CEC though, so nutrients will build up in them if you fert regularly.

If you want a product that has nutrients available to plants right out of the bag, go for ADA Aquasoil. When you get through comparing bag size and weight, they're about the same price; 30-50% more if you have to ship. I'd consider the extra money very well spent when it comes to raising healthy plants, especially if you combine it with dosing to non-limiting nutrient levels.

Hi,
You have not answered the questions from earlier.
Without them we can only guess or offer very general
comments or suggestions.

If you read the ad for that soil it comes with timed
release granules mixed in with the substrate. When
the granules have served their purpose they tell you that
you need to purchase the special chemicals to inject into
the substrate. The picture looked like liquids and some
small jars of other chemicals. That was the reason why
I was cautioning you.

Some of the substrates available today contain everything
one needs in a substrate to grow a lush green jungle. The
problem is that some run out in 6 months or so, and others
run out in a year. These are developed especially for
folks who specialize in planted tanks for contests and
photography. They set up their tanks, enter the contests
or shoot their pictures and then tear the tank down to
begin another.

Some, such as SeaChem's Flourite, contain iron and slowly
fertilize the plants with the iron that they need. These
last "forever" as they are ancient iron rich clays and they
just don't wear out.

If you are not driving your plants with high amounts of
light and CO2 injection; if you stock with a conventional
number and size fish, and don't plant with lots of fast
growing stem plants, then chances are, you will not need
to ever add fertilization to the tank as the fish and their
foods will do it for you. If you choose the "high tech"
type of tank with several watts per gallon, and inject CO2,
then you will have to add fertilization as the plants will
use up the nutrients far faster than they can be created
by the fish. If that is the case the plants will yellow and
die off within weeks of being added to the tank.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Actually the substrates don't run out in a year if you dose the column heavily. ADA aquasoil would be the main product in question here; if you dose using ADA specs, you won't put enough nutrients into the column to replace the nutrients lost from the soil. Some of these substrates come uncharged; eco-complete is one of them. In both EC and ADA AS what you're looking at is CEC; Cation Exchange Capacity. These substrates will pick up free nutrients if they are around to replenish the soil. For a good example of this, Tom Barr has just published a full analysis of the nutrients in ADA Amazonia Aquasoil I comparing new to old, and the shift in nutrients that happened during dosing.

Now if you dose ADA ferts and use ADA lean column dosing, you're going to find that it runs out in a year. Amano does this, and this is why he ends up replacing his substrate yearly.

Iron is only the beginning; if you dose your column well with a high CEC substrate, you will have a substrate loaded with NPK and some micros. In doing this you provide nutrients both at the leaf and at the root. This dosing can be done quite cheaply if you can get your hands on some K2SO4, KNO3 and KH2PO4. Micros can be dosed through a brand line, or CSM+B if you can get it shipped in. using varied styles.

Dosing is no more difficult than using some 1/4 and 1/16 teaspoon measures if you don't want it to be. In some of my tanks, dosing happens maybe twice a week, the light is low, the growth is very healthy, and the tanks are without algae complications. Others run at a higher pace because I happen to enjoy it.

I have plants under 3wpg at times, and I can't say they've turned yellow or died off within weeks of adding them. I don't know of anyone using proper methods that has this problem. Nitrogen deficiency can cause this, but that's under dosing. I do find that I have to trim them quite frequently because of the increased growth rate, and that replanting the newer growth while removing the old looks good. Still, the growth that comes out of the tank is usually so excessive that I end up selling my plants. I fund a very large portion of my hobby costs on plant growth, as well as mixing fertilizers locally.

That being said, I don't advocate more than 3wpg; it's not necessary to grow any submerged aquatic macrophyte that I'm aware of. Getting CO2 to non-limiting levels for the plants usually means killing the fish at levels higher than this. Rather I recommend bulbs with low output, and many of them to create better spread and saturation. Light from multiple angles is far more valuable than blaring it down from a single source.

There are only a couple of situations for which I recommend ridiculous levels of light; the first is for commercial purposes. This means no fish, just farming plants and cranking the CO2 levels up. The other is for those who have pushed even saturation to its limits and still aren't happy with the mmol's of PAR making it into the shaded areas. If you fall into the later group, odds are it's for serious competition and you don't mind preening your tank all day to prevent algae from getting a foothold.

I found some plain old gravel and bought it. Thanks for the info though, learned a bunch of new stuff.

†Aquapickle†

No problem. And gravel can work just fine as well, so long as you're not getting into some of the smaller, fine rooted plants. I'd strongly suggest some fertilization; a touch of NPK and micros in the lower light range will see your plant much happier. If you're doing the very low light thing, perhaps only K+ and micros.

-Philosophos

I have a 96 watt compact flourescent.
The tank size is 36in. x 12in x 20in.
It can hold 38 gallons of water.
I am planning on using the DIY co2 system, and adding the liquid ferts from seachem.

However, i haven't been able to put any of this to use yet because i cant get the tank cycle.
But that is a whole nother topic.

†Aquapickle†

Oh. i forgot to mention that that puts me at around 2.5 watts per gallon.

†Aquapickle†

2.5 wpg of CF is what I'd call some heavy demands for DIY CO2, especially at that volume of tank. Consider a double batch with excel dosing to go with it. Even so, odds are you'll have BBA popping up which is a sure sign of limiting CO2 levels.

If you can, find a way to either obscure the fixture or raise it to reduce the level of light making it into the tank. Because of lensing from the inside of the glass, simply using the inverse square law usually fails to get results as effective as most people think. There's some calculations I've been pondering, but I haven't gotten around to it so I'm not going to advise using them yet.

Instead, try to get your hands on a PAR meter, or failing that even a waterproof lux meter would work. Just remember that lux isn't PAR, let alone PUR, so it's only useful for comparing the same light to its self at relatively the same number of hours of use.

Failing any light meters, just eyeball it and try to aim for around 2/3 to 3/4 of the intensity you're at now.

-Philosophos