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  L# How many Cardinals?
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SubscribeHow many Cardinals?
GobyFan2007
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Hi There!

I was debating over what small fish i could get for the 20g that is; small, common, brightly colored, and easy to maintain. Keithg told me that cardinals were the way to go. I was wondering how many cardinals could i get, maximum.

My Stocking is:

-4x Swordtails
-4x-5Going to be) Kuhli loaches

The plants:

-1x Rapid growing AMazon Sword
-6x Aponogeton bulbs
-1x Lance anubis
-1x Java Fern
- (FUTURE) Java Moss

So how many should and could i get? I was thiking along the lines of 8, but maybe i was wrong....

THanks Guys!

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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2007 23:37Profile Homepage AIM PM Edit Report 
clownloachfan
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8 sounds good to me, make sure to really have some plants for them to hide among, which you already do.
Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2007 23:48Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
BM
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EditedEdited by BM
If its a 20 Gal long, you could go 10-12 if you wanted to. They are very nice in a larger group like that. I once had a 20 long with only a few corys and 18 neons

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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2007 23:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
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I have 10 in the Betta tank 32lt But the tank is extremely heavily planted, an air wand, also a powerful internal Eheim filter. I also change about 40% of the water weekly.

It will depend on the other fish, planting, filtration, and your house keeping. The 4 Sword tails if they are breeding this will over load very quickly and reduce the number of Cardinals

They do school better in bigger schools 10+

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2007 01:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Gaia
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I wouldn't put Kuhli loaches together with the Swordtails since they need different water parameters, and the Kuhlies are not such a hardy fish.
Maybe consider adding some other livebearers like platies and so on and some Amano shrimp (because they are big and hardy, and you are going to have only adults)and some snails as bottom feaders.
The Swordtails WILL breed anyway, because you have plants => place for the fry to hide, so what keithgh said is going to happen in a couple of month. Make sure that you have what to do with the ones that will exceed the capacity of your tank.
Cardinals and Kuhlies I think would get along very well (never tried though), but Swordtails are a little bit something else.
Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2007 12:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
GobyFan2007
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EditedEdited by GobyFan2007
Oh ok...

I have only 1 swordtail in the tank right now, and they are all females. Ive heard that they can change to males, but if i see any birth signs, i will put the mom into a breeding trap, and let her have the babies there. THen i will decide what to do with the babies.

Now that my nitrates are under control, i am going to investigate whether or not i can keep swordtails in there. I could move them to other tanks, even my dads one. WHat do you guys suggest? Maybe i can get the cardinals and kuhlis? What other fish could i have if i got 8-10 cardinals? If not any other fish, then i cold possibly get like 10+ Cardinals, or no? Would tigerbarbs work? COuld i get the following?

(Note that these numbers are maximums. If i could get them then i would, but if not, then i will reduce the numbers.)

<6 Kuhlis
<10+? Cardinals
< 3-5 Tiger Barbs

If i got an air wand, a bunch of more plants, and better filtration, along with 30% WC weekly, I could get these fish?

I am gunning for cardinals, tiger barbs, danios, and basically any small fish that is relatively common, and is a schooling one. If i have to substitue any of my fish stockings above (except for kuhli) please let me know. I am really wanting the plan up there though..;..

THanks!

PS: I have a 20 tall, not a 20 long. I am sure that i can only get like 8 or 10 cardinals, and like 3-4 Barbs, if i can even have barbs...



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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2007 23:56Profile Homepage AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
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No matter how much extra high quality filtration, air, and quality of water there is a point where you can go no further, and only experience will tell you enough is enough.
If you look at my profile and see what I am running in the 5ft tank you can see why I can push the limit a bit further.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2007 05:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
GobyFan2007
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...........

Ok....That is a lot of serious stuff! I saw the thread for the tank re-do or something like that of yours, and i now know why...I actually at first thought that you werent even at the limit...But with all the filtration, etc., I can understand why you have such a successful tank.

So how many of each fish could i get? Afterall, i only havee a 20 tall, and i think that it is still small for the fish i intend to have. Maybe i should only get one thing? What do you suggest?

THanks


PS: WHat is that bulb thing in your betta tank? WHat exactly does it do?

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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2007 06:29Profile Homepage AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
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Running a UGF with a large Rena pump for each air stone riser and separate Rena's for the two 4ins Ceramic air stones.
Then there is the Eheim Pro11 fully maintained monthly. Plus a 45lt water change weekly. That is one of the reasons the tank is what it is finally its 35+ years experience.

Regardless of tank size eg a 20g long and a 29g tall. Running exactly the same system and every thing the same you could get more into the 20g long as it has a larger water surface area.

I never like telling members exactly what and how many to get as there are too many variations as I have explained previously.

I was told I could never have more that 4-5 Cardinals in the Betta tank now I have 13 and if I see some good ones I will add at least 3 more.

It is just a matter of increase slowly and take notice of what is happening.

Now for that "Bulb" I have no bulbs in the Betta tank at all. In the very beginning I had two Banana plants. That is the only thing I can thing of.

Post a link or more info if it is in Photo Bucket.

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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2007 10:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Gaia
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EditedEdited by gaia
20 g is about 75 l, right?
With the Kuhlis and the cardinals I would put (eventually) another kind of small tetras:
http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/list.aspx?fishfinder=1&salinity=&family=Characidae&geo=&eco=&temperament=&diet=&maxsize=6&waterRegion=&activity=
I searcehd after 'Characidae' and 'under 6 cm'. What you get there are not even by far all the small tetras.
Also you can try rasboras instead, but I find tetras more brightly coloured.
The cardinals (Paracheirodon axelrodi) you can replace if you want with the neon tetras (Paracheirodon innesi) , they look almost the same but the neons are smaller so you can keep more of them, but the cardinals have more intense colours.
With most of the tetras the schools have to be of at least 6, but the more they are the better. So, you should choose between 2 small schools of different species or one big happy school.
Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2007 22:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Two Tanks
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I would go with the cardinals. Neons tend to be sickly, from my experience (they often carry a disease call neon tetra disease, which has no cure). I think lemon tetras would look really nice with your cardinals, if you would like to add a bit more color to the tank. Swordtails get large - about four inchs and a 20 is a bit small for them.
Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2007 19:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
BruceMoomaw
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Yes -- having had almost two decades' experience with both species, I propagandize against Neons and in favor of Cardinals at every opportunity, because of that [extremely bad word] disease. NTD seems practically endemic in store-bought Neons now -- and not only is it NOT limited to Neon Tetras once it gets in your tank; it's not even limited to Tetras in general. Other groups of fish can and do get it.

And not only is it incurable once a fish shows any visible symptoms; it is the very devil to get out of your tank. The best thing you can do is get any apparently infected fish out of there instantly -- especially because it's spread more by fish eating an infected corpse than by the free-floating organism -- and to try to knock out the free-floating organism too by using quinine, neomycin and/or Furazolidine, all of which MAY have some effect on it there. Once the organism gets into a fish, it forms practically indestructible cysts. (Do NOT, for the love of God, follow the advice of some people and try to use Nalidixic Acid against it -- that's the only fish medicine I've ever encountered that is actually harmful to fish at all, but it is DEADLY. Even on the occasion when I used a seriously dilated dose, I might as well have poured cyanide into the tank.)

Cardinals, on the other hand, carry it vastly less often because they're still wild-caught rather than being raised in crowded tanks where NTD can spread epidemically. Indeed, they seem a bit more resistant to it naturally than Neons are. (The other species I've found most vulnerable to NTD so far are Glowlights and Cochu's Blues.) Cardinals are sometimes described in the books as "more delicate than Neons"; but this was never very true, and it's now been completely outdated by the unfortunate advent of NTD.
Post InfoPosted 24-Nov-2007 07:01Profile Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
GobyFan2007
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Thanks everybody! I am not sure that i can have a neon tetra school in there right now. I think i will just wait......Besides, i am going to upgrade to a 30g long.

I have moved the swordtails elsewhere, and have gotten kuhlis and some gouramis. I am kinda afraid of NTD, and im not sure what species of fish is resistant to NTD. I will hold off on the Neons, and get Cardinals instead.

Keith, the Bulb in your tank, i didnt mean a plant bulb, but that blue thing next to the DW. This.

Thanks, ~Goby

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Post InfoPosted 24-Nov-2007 23:15Profile Homepage AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
brandeeno
 
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goby, nix the khulis, get a male betta or a tri of females and the cardinals. the bettas will intimidatet the tetras and cause a tightr school as well as they will help with population control in the swordtails area.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Nov-2007 01:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
brandeeno
 
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ps also get some shrimp and snails to keep up with algae and excess food!

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Post InfoPosted 26-Nov-2007 01:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
GobyFan2007
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I really wanted the kuhlis in the first place. Thats the whole reason i moved the swordtails into another tank. It would be unreasonable to remove the kuhlis. I like them soo much! I love the bottom feeders!

Anyway, I cant put any more fish in that tank. I was thinking of waiting until i get my new tank. That way, nothing will go completely wrong before christmas......I hope!

PS: How would harlequin Rasboras work in the tank instead of tetras. I like these better! They are really streamlined too!

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Post InfoPosted 02-Dec-2007 08:51Profile Homepage AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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About the same number of Harlequins should be ok. I agree, they are lovely little fish.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Dec-2007 00:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
GobyFan2007
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EditedEdited by GobyFan2007
Well, i got some Rasboras ( Ok, maybe i couldnt keep that goal.....), but they are not harlequins......THey have a half black body, with a reddish stripe through the lateral line. I think it is like a Hec. Rasbora or sumthing.......

ANyway, is it possible to get different schools of rasboras, and let it be like one school? Will they school together? Or will they conflict? I like the shoaling ways of the rasboras, and i will get more for my tank. I plan to mix Harlequins with The ones i have, and another one. They all look the same though.....

Please help!

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Post InfoPosted 03-Dec-2007 01:46Profile Homepage AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
BruceMoomaw
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Do those Rasboras look almost exactly like Glowlight Tetras except for having a longer body? If so, they're Rasbora pauciforata. It's been some years since I've seen one of these little guys in a fish store, although they turn up occasionally. The last time I kept one was about a decade ago -- at a time when I was having more trouble keeping fish alive in general -- and while they're sometimes described as delicate, they didn't seem particularly so to me (although I presume that, like Rasbora espei, they're more delicate than the extremely tough Harlequin and Borapetensis Rasboras).
Post InfoPosted 05-Dec-2007 06:51Profile Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
BruceMoomaw
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Incidentally, I have never seen the slightest sign of aggression on the part of any Rasbora I've ever kept.
Post InfoPosted 05-Dec-2007 06:52Profile Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
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