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Sorry about your cardinals, tetra. Are you still going to try to build up that big school?

Thanks NowherMan
I think I'm still going to go for a large school. I just have to get a good deal on them. I'm going to see how many of these actually survive. Maybe the purging is over.

This is definitely a problem didn't think about UV, but your right same situation. These cardinals got visible signs of infection so fast I could almost sit in front of my tank and see them develop. This LFS told me the supplier keeps Discus, cardinals and neons all together in RO water. I believe acclimation is key as well, but you could acclimate these guys all day with the drip method and it won't make any difference IMO.



Last edited by tetratech at 14-Nov-2005 09:53

My Scapes

I bought 6 cardinals from a Major Chained Petstore and all of my cardinals died.... I think part of it was my car ride home, I took me longer to get home than usual that night, due to traffic and such. They all got ich within a few hours and died within 48 hours. I treated them with ich meds immediately and they still all died. I do not think they were in RO water, but no matter what I did they just didn't get any better at all! I think people need to handle the cardinals better at these stores too. I hope you have much better luck with yours. I decided to go back to the neons. I bought 4 neons, I have 2 all ready, I acclimated them extra long and they are doing fine so far. They look pretty good as a matter of fact! Hopefully I will have better luck with these...



Christina

Just for the record, I bought 7 neon tetras already showing symptoms and treated them with a full course of protozin. It made no difference whatsoever,except to stain my silicone blue, and all the fish died anyway apart from one which is just about hanging in there. As far as I can tell with NTD, its functionally useless.I am repeating the treatment with the remaining tetra, but I suspect it will make no difference.As suspected its at best a control for ntd, not a treatment. It doesnt help already infected fish.


....although, remaining tetras is still alive as of today... coo, he might make it yet..

Last edited by longhairedgit at 03-Jan-2006 19:31

I've confirmed that the mix recommended by my (very experienced) LFS clerks to keep NTD from spreading is half the package-recommended dose of nalidixic acid, mixed with an equal amount of neomycin. They report -- if you immediately euthanize ALL the fish currently displaying symptoms, and then dump this stuff in the tank -- there will be "a small amount of mortality for a few more days", and then the disease will disappear from the tank.

If true -- and, as I say, they have considerable experience -- this is extremely good news.

Thats when we start getting into that most tricky of subjects- tissue barriers to medication in fish.

Some water treatments are held exterior to the muscle tissue, blood , and nervous system/brain tissue, by harder to permeate tissues, pockets of different fluids with different osmotic properties etc.

Some medications can penetrate all but the brain cavity from little more than skin contact (ivermectin for example) , and some drugs have to be used cautiously for this very reason, ivermectin has been known to kill sheepdogs where it has penetrated the brain, as brain tissue has many similarities to the compositional tissue of nematode worms.

Metronidazole by contrast can be used in all areas of the body, but the method of administration determines how precisely it can get there. Metronidazole is inhibited by barrier tissue.If you want to treat the water for free swimming protozoa and peripheral tissue infection, you treat the water. If you want metronidazole to treat the gut, you offer food, if you want it to treat muscular tissue you inject or go for a dangerously high saturating dose (although this puts a significant load on the renal system) , if you want it to treat brain infections and neurological complaints it requires injection in specific locations ( the renal system actually dictates where you can inject. its complicated stuff! A lot of other antibiotics work on similar principles too, which is why I tend to favour baytril( for general antibiotic use- not for hith), as once injected intramuscularly it tends to penetrate most tissues, and the overdose limit is set quite high, and it can be ingested too.

Some protozoa have and bacteria have a limited lifespan, and reproduce (or at least release cysts exterior to the fish) outside the body, and thusly to cure some ailments all it takes is that you treat the area surrounding the fish. When the cycle of reinfection is direct however, that is when you have to get serious. Its all about avoiding that next generation infection, unless the infectious ailment is unusually long lived,no one protozoa can kill a fish, but its progeny just might.

I still get the feeling something is going to have to be specifically engineered for killing NTD though, I think most people have tried the "throw antibiotics and antiprotozoan/sporazoan agents at it " approach. Havent heard of any resounding successes so far.

It might be that someone has an effective drug and that it simply hasnt been administered effectively, but it all honesty I think were gonna have to come up with something new for this little swine. It only takes someone to test petri dishes of live NTD cysts with something that is already "fish safe", and if any tests are successful we will have a control against its spread, the cure I fear will be much harder to find.

I suspect if protozin actually works at all it will fall under the control category,and be very useful from that angle alone, but we will need to find an agent that kills the living sporozoan and cysts in both muscle tissue and the gut in fish before we have the real solution.Dont forget with NTD we will have to find a drug (probably a compound drug) that treats the interior of the fish and the exterior tank water and surfaces to have an all in one effective treatment. A seperate control or cure will not be effective used on its own.The reinfestation cyle of NTD has vast potential.

The treatment would also need to be safe for a range of species, inclusive of tetra relatives, barbs, and perch-like fish. Then it has to be passed for safety, approved by government bodies, and mass produced to the point it becomes affordable.

We could be in for a very long wait indeed, so until then ,dont be taking too much advice from people saying "weve found a cure", especially not if they happen to own a fish shop, and remember no advice they give you will ever contradict the need for strict quarantine.

These little "weve found a cure" outbreaks can be every bit as dangerous as the disease itself,especially when advocated and assimilated as quickly as they are with no solid foundation of evidence by people who want to sell you fish, dont want to perform quarantine ,and have a legitimate worry that NTD could significantly affect the future of their trade. It doesnt hurt you any to wait for the claims to be tested, and it will hurt you a lot if you buy a batch of infected tetras. Remember NTD kills more than just tetras, you could conceivably lose all of your fish, its just not worth it. You could unwittingly be promoting the spread of NTD in your region. DONT let the healthy populations of tetras you already have become victim to NTD , especially not just because people can be bandwaggoners and cheapskates. Make efforts to breed them, and perhaps a few species specific tanks might not hurt either, considering we dont have a complete list of species that can be affected by NTD. It will cut down on "surprise" or "unexpected" infections. I know it sounds alarmist, but if a cure doesnt show up soon your own reserves of tetras may be the only ones you can rely on to replenish your stocks by managing their breeding. Any shop with a linked filter system is a risk, and the only defence you have is to "lock your own collection down".

If no cure is found in the next few years it might fall to the hobbyist to boycott shops known to sell NTD infected fish, shops will only ever give up current practices (like lack of quarantine, lying about the potential of infection, and using all in one filter systems for the whole shop, and not checking their supply sources ) if people vote with their wallets.

Quarantine,Quarantine,Quarantine,Quarantine.




Last edited by longhairedgit at 15-Dec-2005 08:48

Sounds sensible to me. It would make sense for the organism to have more than one vector to facilitate more efficient transmission to new hosts, though of course there are plenty of organisms that only have one effective vector (malaria being the classic example - it needs to spend part of its life cycle in the gut of Anopheles mosquitoes, and though there is more than one Anopheles species, the parasites tend to be fairly specific about their ideal hosts).

In the case of Plistophora hyphessobryconis, the organism responsible for NTD, the cysts break up into as many as 16 daughter cells each, so the capacity for mass infection is frightening if it does take a hold, which probably explains why, when Bruce had his tragic meltdown, it affected so many of his fishes. The odd one or two infective cells being ingested by a fish would have to 'get lucky' to trigger an infection (i.e., the fish in question was already debilitated for some other reason) but a concerted attack by teeming hordes is a different matter.

A thought occurs to me at this point. Although elevated temperatures would also speed up the life cycle, and potentially result in a heavier secondary infestation from dead fishes, is it possible that a temperature rise would also provide an immune boost? Only I recall an old TFH article from the 70s called "Fever in Fishes" (which I covered here prior to the 2004 archiving, and which may be worth posting again) in which it suggested that for quite a few species, a temperature rise aids recovery in some cases even without the benefit of medication. Experimentally, fishes in a long aquarium with a temperature gradient, allowed to choose their preferred temperature region, migrated to warmer regions of their own accord when disease struck. Could be worth a try also.

Again, however, the BIG problem vis-a-vis medication is delivering an effective agent to the pathogens in such a manner that the pathogens are killed, but the fishes left alive. Given the intricacies of microsporidian biology, I would suspect that any effective agent would have to be administered via medicated food rather than as a water treatment. In the case of Hexamita in Discus, treatment requires both topical administration to lesions when they occur, and administration of medicated food, in order to be effective at combatting Hole In The Head Disease. Given that the infective pathway for microsporidians is the gut, medicated food would seem to be the way forward, unless some genius has devised a treatment that binds molecules to the outer walls of the latent cysts in such a manner as to incapacitate the cysts. That would probably require some fairly cutting edge molecular biology, however.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Trouble is ntd may not have a swimming stage as the reproduction goes straight to cysts, but those cysts can be released into water, that settles in substrates filters, and plants etc, and can be reingested with bottom scavenging. NTD is not entirely dependant on dead fish for its reproduction. That said if anyone can find something that kills the cysts outside of the body of a fish it might help stop the spread in an already partially infected community. Cysts get about, especially when theres thousands of em, all much smaller than the naked eye can see. In an aquarium they could be ingested from just about any surface.Ive seen quite a few testimonials that indicate there were outbreaks even when there were no new fish introduced into a tank, and that logically the cysts either came from live feedings of tubifex, or in plants, so obviously NTD cysts have a vector of escape that doesnt necessarily require a corpse for transmission although obviously a corpse would be the most direct method.

Last edited by longhairedgit at 12-Dec-2005 21:16

I've tried quinine -- and nitrofurazolidine -- myself, but my experiment was inconclusive (it was at the tail end of my godawful 2003 NTD outbreak, and I have no desire to go through that experience again just for scientific purposes).

Certainly a minority of my library-tank fish survived that epidemic; but I don't know whether the medicines were a contributing factor, or the surviving fish had just become immune (and at least one Web document indicates that fish DO develop immunity to this horrible little organism if they survive it the first time. In that case, however, they never show any visible symptoms of having been infected at all -- the moment a fish shows detectable symptoms, it's doomed.)

I haven't talked yet to those LFS staffers to confirm that I've given you a correct description of their treatment -- but it was a 50-50 mix of nalidixic acid with SOMETHING, and I'm reasonably sure they said neomycin.

Cassie is entirely correct in saying that NTD is spread mainly by other fish eating infected flesh, rather than by the free-swimming organism -- so the moment a fish dies, get it out of the tank FAST.

I actually bought a bottle of the stuff the other day, and it does indeed say it treats NTD, if I get a batch of infected tetras, ill test it and tell you lot the result.I might even seek out an infected batch on purpose and treat them anyway, I just happen to have found a truly awful pet shop that carries them, and ive reported them to the rspca anyway, so while im waiting for them to be investigated I could buy a couple and see if it works, Worth knowing the result since it only costs me a few quid and having to treat a quarantine tank afterwards.It will give some nice pathology evidence if the rspca want it too. Im taking it all with a pinch of salt until then.

Theres a whole range of animal medicines sold in the uk that quite simply dont work, Im still not quite sure how they get by making false claims but I think the government needs to tighten up on what they can and cannot claim. You can go to just about any supermarket in the uk and buy wormers that simply dont work. It does worry me so

If anyone has a positively identified outbreak of NTD and uses protozin to treat it successfully, be sure to let us know.


Last edited by longhairedgit at 12-Dec-2005 08:55

I suspect that quinine-type protozoicides have been tried before. It may be a matter of which compounds prove effective. Of course, part of the problem with microsporidians is that the infective stages do not, as far as I know, swim free. Instead, the principal vector is dead flesh from previous casualties of the disease being eaten by potential new victims. Then of course there are all sorts of questions about the mechanism of spread within the fish once it is infected. NTD spreads through the bloodstream to other sites within the fish, and so any effective medication would have to end up in the fish's bloodstream before the parasties changed over from schizogony (asexual reproduction) to sporogony (sexual reproduction), because when that change takes place, the symptoms including muscle disintegration start to manifest themselves.

It would be worth trying medicated food, but I suspect this would only have an effect on fishes that were pre-clinical, i.e., not showing the outwardly manifest symptoms of an infection. Once symptoms appeared, chances are the disease could be arrested with a suitable agent, but the issue of the toxicity of the agent then becomes an issue - it's entirely possible that there are numerous agents that have knocked out microsporidians in the test tube, but which are too toxic to administer to fish.

One agent that may prove powerful enough to work is Lariam (Mefloquinone), a synthetic quinine derivative that was developed to be effective against strains of Plasmodium falciparum that had become resistant to other antimalarials. However, this compound has side effects issues in humans, some of them serious, which is why its use is now subject to severe clinical restrictions in the UK. Mefloquinone is only used in humans in the UK as a drug of last resort when the patient is known to have travelled to areas where resistant strains of P. falciparum are endemic. As for veterinary use, I am not aware of any restrictions, though a chat to someone with the relevant expertise in the veterinary field could well change this.

Of course quinines are not the only protozoicides in existence, and chances are research is being conducted on producing an effective one for use in aquaria as we speak. Waterlife in the UK claims to have an effective treatment for NTD in the form of Protozin - if this is truly the case (and thankfully I haven't had the necessity to test this) then this looke like the way to go for now.


Last edited by Calilasseia at 12-Dec-2005 05:52

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Indeed, my bad, sorry about not making the distinction, but its interesting how two entirely different chains of thought are getting near similar solutions, your quinolones comments sparked me thinking about quinine.They have in this case a similar relevence despite the different chemical action, although they both act to bind the dna of the sporazoan, effectively preventing it from changing its life cycle and breeding.

Its interesting that quinine trees (Cinchona pubescens and family) occurs naturally near areas inhabited by tetras.The plant itself prefers disturbed areas near open canopy, and that means near rivers and lakes in addition to burned and cleared areas. Releasing the active compound is as simple as adding alcohol (or in nature some decomposition and fruit acids is all it takes). Im thinking possible natural preventative??? Obviously it would only occur in the water at extreme dilution.Wouldnt it be great if NTD prevention was as simple as putting the right bark, or bark extract in the tank !

To be honest though, we couldnt get that lucky.Quinine in human medicine is extracted and held in compound suspension as a sulphate which might be harmful for fish. Im not saying quinine is the drug we should be using to treat ntd , but there are many potential "quinines " for which we do not have a use. Even the quinine actually used for humans can be sourced in different compounds from at least two different trees in the genera, and despite the compounds not being identical, they are both effective. For reference , chinese herbal medicine has a history of using different "quinines" for a whole host of parasitically spawned ailments.The Cinchona family is large and has dozens of relatives many of which have bark with curative properties.

Cinchona pubescens works on malaria sporazoans so why should not another species have the potential to effect ntd? The evolutionary roots of NTD might be similar, one favouring blood, the kidney and the liver, the other the gastrointestinal tract and muscle tissue.Both infections have a strong connection with water, and waterborne creatures. Perhaps they are at some level, despite their differing lifestyles honed over thousands of years of evolution, once sourced from one genera of sporazoan? If there is heredity , perhaps there is a common weakness? Gotta be worth some experimentation. Its already known that blackwater extract helps increase immunity at least partially to NTD ,basically a lot of whats in blackwater is peat based and plant based extracts, so perhaps theres more than coincidence there?

On kinda the same subject we have the history of neon tetras in the hobby to consider too. They were once not only rare in the hobby, but rare in nature too, the presence of NTD naturally might have been the very cause that lowered their numbers originally. Perhaps the tetras that were originally captured and massively captive bred from were the few survivors of wild strains of NTD, and thusly resistant, perhaps there was even something in the water that broke the chain of infection in that region? Its possible that this resistance has been lost over multigenerational captive breeding, and its also possible people using water that was untreated from those locales where tetras existed may have reintroduced the parasite to home aquaria and stockists.They could have done this either by using the original source, or by cohabiting the tetras with a species of fish that can survive NTD infections, dont forget for every parasite out there, there is pretty much a species that cant get it, one that can and dies from it, and one that gets infected and doesnt die, thus perpetuating the evolution and spread of said parasite. Most parasites are rarely totally species specific, and NTD is no exception. Then of course, it spreads like wildfire.Its the sheer numbers of tetras in the hobby that are enabling the NTD infection to return.

Its all wild speculation of course, but I thought Id throw it in. What do you think?



Last edited by longhairedgit at 11-Dec-2005 20:22

Last edited by longhairedgit at 11-Dec-2005 20:31

Er, quick correction here.

Quinolones are NOT quinines.

There is an important difference in the molecular structure of the two groups of chemicals. In particular, none of the natural or the synthetic quinines contains a fluorine atom in its molecule, while the later generation quinolones all do. There is a difference in the double ring too - quinines only have one pyridine ring component, while the quinolones have two. The attachment points of active groups is also different.

Quinolones are antibacterial, NOT antimalarial like quinines.

If quinines were uses as a possible NTD treatment, then the action of the molecule would have to be such that it affected a range of protozoans, not just Plasmodium species (the organisms that cause malaria - Plasmodium flaciparum and P. vivax being the two most frequently implicated in human disease).

Pays to be cautious here!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

It does seem logical that quinines may have the potential to treat NTD successfully. It was after all , The only successful treatment for malaria for many years, but even then more of a preventative than a cure. It might take some re-engineering of a quinine source to come up with a compound that successfully kills the sporazoan in water, and even more reasearch to come up with one that works within the fish themselves that wouldnt have to be used constantly for the rest of an infected fish's life to keep infection low. It may simply be that shops that use it reduce the numbers of fish dying in the shop, but as soon as the animal is homed away from the treatment NTD may progress as normal.

It certainly has more potential than other suggestions ive seen though.Id still be cautious of shops claiming that theyve found a cure though.

Nalidixic Acid? Hmm, happens to be in my antibiotic database.

Here's some information you might like about it and the group of antibiotics it belongs to. Note: the legends in parentheses denote the form in which the medicine is manufactured - T=tablets, C=capsules, L=liquid for oral consumption, I=intravenous injectable liquid.

Quinolones

History : Nalidixic acid discovered in 1962. This was the first quinolone to be synthesised.

Action : bactericidal. The 4-quinolones need oxygen to kill bacteria, otherwise they merely stop the growth of bacterial colonies (bacteriostasis). Act upon bacterial DNA.

Use : should only be used for the treatment of organisms resistant to standard drugs. Particularly selected for the treatment of dysentery and other gastro-intestinal infections.

Resistance : quinolones have been excessively used, and bacterial resistance is a problem. Resistance has developed rapidly in patients suffering from infection with Pseudomonas, Citrobacter or Campylobacter infections (wound, gut and bone infection). Resistance developed to the action of any one 4-quinolone seems to confer at least some resistance to others in addition.

Antibiotics in the Quinolone group:

Acrosoxacin : trade name Eradacin (C). Treatment of gonococcal infections.

Cinoxacin : trade name Cinobac (C). Treatment of urinary tract infections.

Ciprofloxacin : trade name Ciproxin (TI). Treatment of respiratory, gastro-intestinal and urinary tract infections. Also, treatment of septicaemia and gonorrhea. (incidentally I've had this prescribed for me back in the days when I had recurrent tonsillitis prior to my operation, and it's pretty powerful - also plays havoc with your digestive system!)

Enoxacin : trade name Comprecin (T). Treatment of urinary tract and skin infections. Also, gonorrhea and dysentery.

Nalidixic Acid : trade names Nalidixic Acid (T), Mictral (L), Negram (TL), Uriben (L). Treatment of urinary tract infections.

Norfloxacin : trade name Utinor (T). Treatment of urinary tract infections.

Ofloxacin : trade name Tarivid (TI). Treatment of urinary tract infections, lung infections, gonorrhea, urethritis and cervicitis.

This page also has a brace of other information specific to nalidixic Acid (again, aimed at human medical use).

This page contains additional information on the quinolones, including some details regarding their mechanism of action.

On the basis of all of this, I would be somewhat doubtful as to the usefulness of quinolones against microsporidians, because microsporidians are eukaryote organisms, while the quinolones act specifically against enzymes involved in DNA replication that are only known to be present in bacteria (one of the two major divisions of Prokaryota, the other being the Archaea, formerly part of the bacteria but now in a division of their own). Whether there exists an alternative mechanism of action in certain pathogenic eukaryote organisms remains to be seen, though if the substance possessed analogous DNA replication inhibition in eukaryote cells, this could theoretically make quinolones unsafe for human use. Since they have been extensively tested for safety in humans, the existence of such a mechanism is considered unlikely. However, effectiveness against microsporidia would hinge upon apsects of the molecular biology of the microsporidian cell that remain to be determined, so it may prove experimentally useful to deploy quinolones against microsporidia. Any action that DOES occur will be of considerable use to aquarists, needless to say!

Of course, in the case of microsporidia, as Bruce has observed above, they tend to be apocalyptic organisms when they arrive in an aquarium, and consequently when they do, one is in the unhappy situation of "if I do nothing, the fish will die anyway" and if quinolones combined with another medication prove to be effective at dealing with microsporidia, then this will save us all having to strip down otherwise perfectly working aquaria and bombing them with Chlorox. I suspect many of us will welcome that development!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Longhairedgit's apocalyptic description of NTD is, unfortunately, in accord with my own experiences. Up to now the Cardinals I've bought (unlike my Neons) have seemed to be free of it -- but if it starts getting into them, well, my God.

One possible tip: my LFS' staff -- who are VERY good at fish care -- claim they've discovered that you can eliminate the organism from the rest of your tank with a 50-50 mixture of neomycin and Nalidixic Acid. Replace half the dose of nalidixic acid recommended on the package with neomycin, because N.A. in the recommended amounts will actually poison a lot of your fish -- something I'd already found out the hard way. (N.A. is the only fish medicine I've ever encountered that really is dangerous to use.)

Finally: I just bought 12 Cardinals from them for the library tank that I maintain -- and 8 have kicked the bucket within the first 10 days. This is the first time this has ever happened to me, although I'm not seeing any symptoms of NTD. I hope this is not a harbinger of things to come.

I don't know for sure how a UV sterilizer will affect the longevity of any fish, I've heard different things about them. Some say that a sterilizer will keep pathogens out of the tank and thus eliminate potential fish killers, but others say that non-exposure to disease will lower the readiness and resistances of a fish's immune system.

Acclimation-wise, the UV sterilizer should help out with the fish. They will of course be very stressed about the move to your tank, and will be more susceptible to infection. The sterilizer will hopefully destroy enough pathogens to allow your tetras plenty of time to recuperate, free of disease.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Longhair,
Acclimation wise I agree with you. I'm going to be hooking up my UV tomorrow. Do you thing this will help with the cardinals during acclimation and with longevity.



My Scapes

This sort of thing is why I say neons are tougher than cardinals, despite the fact that everyone seems to disagree with me on that one. Ive got 40 neons and lost only one on introduction to a new aquarium, no further losses in two years, and then i had 10 cardinals several years ago who allbut two died prior to their third birthdays, noticeably during tank moves .

Perhaps its just genetic susceptibility in certain populations, and perhaps its immunosupression. Who knows?

Last edited by longhairedgit at 06-Dec-2005 06:05

As a last resort, you could try Protozin.

On the blurb on the side of my bottle it claims to be useful in dealing with NTD. Whether this is truly the case or whether it is hype is a moot point, as thus far microsporidians of all kinds have proven pretty intractable as far as medication goes, because the method of transmission of infective spores tends to be via the eating of dead fishes by the living ones. Once the infective spores have been ingested, they begin the infective process via the intestine. The mere fact that microsporidian spores can survive inside what is, after all, a part of the fish's digestive system without being digested themselves suggests that they are pretty robust. I would venture to suggest that unless a medication contains a fairly specific protozoicide that can be absorbed by the fishes and won't kill the fishes into the bargain, then it's unlikely to be effective against NTD or any other microsporidian.

This somewhat neglected article of mine has a fair amount to say about microsporidians ...


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Calilasseia
I really envy that you have such a good supplier. I have not been able to find that.

broad spectrum antibiotics, espescially Tetracycline
I've had bad luck adding any of these meds to my tanks, although I Seachem as quite a few that I haven't tried. I'm hoping the UV helps out.

So far I have purchased 21 cardinals between Nov 10 and Dec 3 and I currently have 14. That is a 66% Survival rate and some I have had only 2 days. My other fish including rummys, pencils, otos an shrimp are all fine and I really lose any.

Last edited by tetratech at 05-Dec-2005 13:22

My Scapes

I have heard that some people have had success treating
NTD with broad spectrum antibiotics, espescially Tetracycline, combined with a broad spectrum parasite control medication.
Perhaps you could give that a run.

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Always pays to check the provenance of your fishes.

I'm fortunate in that my LFS (small independent dedicated pet store) was set up by someone who was a fish enthusiast, and spent time looking around for wholesalers with a decent provenance. I've used the same store since I was a teenager - 30 years' worth of custom during which I've had hardly any diseased fishes from him, and a lot of fishes that lived to a ripe old age. But for the recent débacle with water treatment chemicals I'd still have my Lemons (one or two nudging 8 years old when they died and still kicking like juveniles), my Cardinals (most of which were over 6 years old) and my star breeding female Panda Corys.

Once I'm able to build up my Cardinal shoal again (I'm going to try and make the shoal 8 individuals) and add a couple more Otocinclus to the setup, I think I'll leave it at that for a while, even though I managed to have more in there successfully for 10 years. Partly because my LFS hasn't been able to get Lemons for 2 years now. However, if he DOES get Lemons, I might avail myself of some!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002