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Hello All,

I have a fairly new demasoni BEAUTIFUL FISH and for some reason he seems very recluse and "quiet" compared to when I bought him.

I have seen a change in his behaviour within the oast 48hrs, very up and down. He seems to be breathing heavier than the rest of the fish. He is hiding a lot and resting on the rocks within his territory almost "tired looking". However there are some bursts of energy and still very aggressive but only in "spurts". There is apparently nothing physically wrong with him but he is not eating much.

All other cichlids (blue cobalts, yello labs, dubosis) in the tank purchased at the same time are active and no behavioral changes at this time. Water conditions are good PH is 8.2, NH3 is at 0. Any words or comments?

Tough call on that one.

The only thing I can think of is that the Cobalt is stressing the Demasoni. If it is quite a bit bigger it could be asserting itself a bit on the Demasoni. ALthough the Cobalt is not a notorious villan, it was at one point classed as pseudotropheus, and mixing pseudotropheus' can get messy - conspecific aggression is BIG with them.

Also, look out for bloat...if his stomach looks swollen and he is not eating, it could be Malawi bloat.

What do you feed them?

72G Bowfront. 1 Sunshine Peacock, 2 Yellow Labs, 1 Ps. Elongatus, 1 Blue Ahli, 1 Red Kadanga, 1 Mel. Exasperatus, 1 metriaclima emmiltos, 1 Ancistrus.

14.5G 4 Neon Tetras.

Thanks for the reply! I feed them Cichlid flakes and mini granules once a day enough to enjoy the frenzy.

The rival species makes sense but the cobalts and the others are same in size and equally aggressive. In fact the Demasoni is larger and more dominant.

I did a 25% water change 2 nights ago. Changed the filters, administered Prime and stopped feedings. Since I have tested the water daily. PH is 7.8-8.4, ammonia levels 0ppm and NH3 0PPM. The only reading that is way off is my Nitrite readings, I think Prime is messing up the readings. Wat can I do to reduce the Nitrite to normal levels quickly?

Last there is no obvious bloating that I can see and no visual or physical scars, marks or problems with the demasoni.

mmmm,hair seldon has a good point,but even if the cobolt was giving him a hard time,i dont really think that just this would cause him 2 have laboured breathing,what is the reading of your nitrites,and do you have much air pumping in to your tank.if not some more air injection will help,theres a few things you can do to bring them down,a wc is one way,or try some algone,or nitrasorband add some strees zyme to speed up the development of your bio filter,also you can add some pharmaceuticals aquariums salt,this will reduce nitrite toxicity to your fish.how long has this tank been up and running for,also id say this is why he has laboured breathing,when i had high nitrites my blue acars had laboured breathing,i done a 30% water change and a small vacume,then i got some nitrasorb,and i think it was around 2 days and my water was back 2 normall:^nitrites are very bad,even in small trace amounts they will stress fish,also it reduces the bloods ability to carry oxygen,hense the heavy breathing,then surpressing there immune system,then that icreases there chance of sickness or even death..ok now when you have any reading of nitrites,this can be caused by a number of things,possible over feeding,over stocked,or your bio filter isnt up to scratch..well mate i hope this helps ya....

Whats up!

Good points. I have a 54 gallon corner tank. The tank is about 2 years old and well set. I have 2 bio wheels, enough to cycle 100+ gallons/hr and arriation for 80 gallons. I did a 25% water change and a small vaccum on Monday night. Plus changed carbon filtration, added AquaSafe, PRIME and Aquarium Salt.

For some reason my Nitrite readings are OFF the CHART...I am not sure they are correct. According to the chart between 1.0 and 2.0 PPM...I think PRIME is messing up the readings. The PH and Ammonia are right on - perfect. Plus All other fish are thriving and eating well.

I have seen the Demasoni "dance" in circles with an Albio pseudotropheus...almost like a ritual or a mating "dance" then they lock their jaws. I have also noticed a "string- like" discharge. It does not seem like the usual feces.

I have heard of Malawi Bloat...Can these be some of the symtoms? What is the cause? How can it be corrected?

whoo that is high,im very surprised you havent seen any deaths yet mate,mmmm,well your filtration is up to scratchmmm,did the wc and vac change the reading or did it stay the same>im not sure about the bloat,but id say that most of these problem your having with your fish,is caused by the nitrites,even thoo its only your nitrites that are high,one thing normall lead to another,if you know what i mean,also if all your other parameters are fine,it mite be worth,getting a new test kit,or get some tests done at your lfs,this is a tuff one,let me go and have a look in one of my desease book,and see if i can see what the discharge is,oh and ive seen this in a few posts on this site,the liplocking is not always a courting thing,sometimes it can be a mild test of a partner,to a full on fight,like they HATE EACH OTHER,keep a close eye on that,

Hey again and thanks for the help. Here is today's update.

I did a 40% water change and vaccum entire gravel. Water discarded was very clean/clear, there was almost no waste.

I have re-set the tank added Aqua Safe, PRIME and Cichlid Buffer. All readings are perfect: PH is 7.8-8.4 range, Chlorine Test @ 0PPM, Ammonia/NH3 Test @ 0PPM, however my Nitrites tests results according to the color chart on the kit are OFF the chart. In fact I have never seen this color in any previous testings. According to test the corresponding color is between 2.0-5.0PPM. Not possible, it does not seem right. Especially with the water changes and the fact that all other readings are right on.

My question is can adding "PRIME" give me a false/positive on the Nitrite levels test? And are there any adverse or negative side effects from using "PRIME"?

My Demasoni does not look good. I am not sure he will survive the night. Unfortunately I think the water change was too stressful on the already weakened immune system. He is sitting in his cave breathing extremely heavy and gasping for air. All other fish look happy and unaffcted.

I will not feed for the next few nights and let's see what happens.

Anyway...Keep you posted!

Hi there,

I'm sorry for the unfortunate experience your having with your fish. I was going to answer your question on Prime. Prime does not affect any test kits. It is one of the few conditioner that can be used with out affecting water quality negatively and test kits (with the neutralization of ammonia and nitrite etc.). I must ask why your using Prime and Aquasafe and salt. Prime does everything that needs to be done with water so why use two conditioners and salt? I know that there made by different companies and they may not be compatible. Also I know nothing really about cichlid but your using a cichlid buffer for your PH. I know that a stable PH is better than an altered one(so I've been told) so maybe by using this product, its causing to much of a swing in PH and its affecting the fish first? "7.8-8.4 range" is a large gap. (at least in my eyes) Also is there a possibilty that the fish is sensitive to salt?

Again I'm sorry, hopefully things get better soon,

Tigermom

Thanks for the response. I was not sure.

To answer your questions...

I mainly use Aqua Safe as a water conditioner, PRIME to lower the "nitrites", Cichlid Buffer to raise the PH, especially whith large water changes (40%) in order to bring the tank to normal levels.

Aquarium Salt strictly to reduce the stress on the fish.

Also the reason for the wide range on the PH levels is because the test kit I own only provide me the Alkaline levels ranging from 7.8 to 8.4. However the reading leans more towards the 7.8 PH.

Thanks for your help.

ok STOP YOUR WCSdont do no more for now,thast enuff.now ive had a look in my book,and i cant even find anything close to what your describing whats coming from your demansoni,im sorry i cant be of more help to you and him,i also red that the prime wont change any of your readings,im starting to wonder if your nitrite test kit is out of date,or gone off or something,its just seems funny that all your other fish are fine,except the newest member whos not settling in well(thats not that uncommon)and like i said with a reading thats off the charts,all your fish would be baddly stressed,and breathing heavy.i recomend to get your test checked or your water,thats up to you,maybe even just buy a new kit for peace of mind,that way you will no for sure thats its ok.also what sort of condition was the demansoni when you got him,what was its behavour like in the tank in the fishstore..

No problem. No more WC's!

Thank you for looking into this for me. I have noticed the Demasoni now has a long, clear, stringy, feces-like discharge. He is still alive but very heavy breathing and anchoring himself to stay balanced.

I was thinking of taking him to the fish store where I bought him and see if they can nurse him back to health and having my water tested. Maybe it's just the fact that he is sick and nothing to do with water conditions.

Will keep you posted.

yes get your water tested thats a good idea,and it cant hurt,but with the fish thats sick,u can take him back,but the trip to the shop and a change again in water parameters,mite just be enuff to finish him off in his weaken state,but thats your call,if you want my opp,i would just hang onto him,ive seen fish very sick,and have made a full come back,i mean he could die in the next 10 mins,but u wont know unless you hang onto him..

Well I just wanted to keep you in the loop. The Demasoni did not make it. The Nitrite test was accurate.

Unfortunately the only cause for this high level was by using Tap water for the recent water changes. According to the fish store I visit it appears our city adds MANY chemicals to keep the water conditions good, which caused the high Nitrites. It happens often here in South Florida.

However none of the other fish seem stessed or unhealthy. None are showing any signs of disease or weakened immune system. So I am lucky no other fish was affected. Keep our fingers crossed.

I was recommended to add "Bio Sphera", any kind of Nitrifying bactreria agent, Cycle and Stability. All filters were change again and all I can do is wait and let the bacteria work and test the water in a few days.

Thanks for all your help.

also mate just give your tap water a test,i got told the samething but nitrates instead of nitrites,and when i tested the tap water it was fine,no traces at all,sometimes i think that lfs feel that they have to give some answer (even if it means making something up to sound good)rather than just saying,i dont know... sorry to here about your dema too,very sad

Hello and Please HELP...

Just wanted to let you know you were 100% correct. I did the water test from the tap water and Nitrites are 0PPM.

In addition I re-tested my tank. Here are the results:

Chlorine/Chloramine/Ammonia levels are at 0PPM
PH is within range @ 7.8-8.4.
Nitrite are OFF the chart @ 2.0PPM+

How is it possible to have such a high Nitrite count when I have done 2 water changes within the last week and tap water was clear of Nitrites. Replaced the filters (I have not touched the Bio Wheels)

I have also added Cycle, Stability, Bio Sphera, Prime and Nitrifying Bacteria recommended by my fish store in order to lower the Nitrite levels in case of an emergency and all it looks like it may be counteracting and increasing the levels.

Here is my tank set-up:
Bow Front 54 gallon tank with 2 Biowheels (Penguin 170 & 200) enough to cycle 370 gallons per hour and 100 gallon tank. I have 2 Whisper 40 air pumps enough to erriate 80 gallon tank.

Here is my list of fish: (1) Placo, (1) Upsidedown cat, (1) Red Zebra, (2)Blue Cobalts, (2) Albino Zebras, (1) Yellow Lab, (2)Dubuosis and (5) unknow colorful Malawi cichlids and (1) Bolivian Ram. All are Juveniles and medium in size except the Placo, Upside down Cat and the Bolivian ram.

I feed them a combination of "TetraCichlid" flakes & Mini Granules and "New Life Spectrum" Cichlid Formula. I feed them once per night enough to enjoy the frenzy. However I have reduced the feedings this week in order to reduce the Nitrites to once every 2-3 days.

I have no idea what to do. I can' explain the nitrites and I need a viable/quick solution to the High Nitrites! I look forward to your reply!

Hi,
This thread has gone past a disease category and is
now more of a water quality issue.
I'll ask that it move to Water Quality and the kill
the current "poll" thread in Water Quality in favor
of this thread.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hey there frank.

I have already done so and infact sent you a private message on this issue. I will terminate the poll. Have a good one.

My suggestion would be do a small 10-15% water change
every day until the nitrItes subside.
I wonder why you would add so many different things
at once. Bio spira was probably sufficient on its own.
Cycle is a waste of money, Id just leave it off your list.

Id also like to advise that I am not certain of how long the Bolivian Ram will live with the cichlid mix you have. General speaking, one usually does not mix South American cichlids like the Bolivian with African Cichlids like Malawis. They have different requirements (Rams like soft, acidic water of ph 7 or below) and are very peaceful, where Malawis and other african cichlids usually prefer hard, alkaline waters and are very aggressive in comparison.

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Posted 22-Jan-2008 03:42
cichlidman
Small Fry
Posts: 12
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Registered: 14-Jan-2008
I understand and agree with you on the Bolivian Ram. However I have had him for almost 2 years and he is fully grown. He was part of my old community tank and I must say he is holding his own. He is does not allow the African's to mess with him. Also the water change was done gradually so he has been able to adapt. Althoug I understand what you mean about the water preference

Now...the products were not used all at once. They were used over a period of 10 days. I used them producs because they were recommended by the fish stores I visit to reduce the nitrites.

Unfortunately as you know every store or rep you talk to has a different opinion of what products work best. Hence the array I mentioned.

Prime I only use as a Nitrite, Ammonia reducer wen making smaller water changes. Aqua Safe I use when making water larger water changes to make the tap water safe to the fish.

Also you are the second person that has told me cycle is a waste of money. The same fish store said Bio Sphera was no good either and recommended Stability instead, which according to him is better than both.

Can the combination of these products cause this enormous increase in the Nitrite levels?
Posted 22-Jan-2008 05:02
So_Very_Sneaky


Ultimate Fish Guru
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Hopefully the ram will be ok when the africans
all grow to full size and temperment.

I really dont think the products you used could have
caused a huge Nitrite spike unless you had ammonia that it
is rapidly consuming.
Have you tested the tap water for nitrites?

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Posted 22-Jan-2008 06:19
longhairedgit


Fish Guru
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Registered: 21-Aug-2005
How long has the tank been setup for now? Whats the nitrate reading like?


PH is within range @ 7.8-8.4.
Bit harsh for a bolivian ram, as is the company, youll need to move him on, he doesnt belong in that community, 90% odds on he will be killed by the ph or other cichlids if you dont..

Just a tip, I dont tend to mix api products and tetra products, it can sometimes give you some truly weird water qualities, including misting, and partial bacterial deaths. Generally its better to commit to one brand or the other.
Posted 22-Jan-2008 09:45
HOKESE

Fish Addict
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mmm,i new the lfs store would do that,most tap water is fine,even if there is nitrites or nitrates whateva,its normally only in tiny trace ammounts...i cant stand it when lfs just wont say i dont know,sometime ths dodgy info they give can cause more harm,now i aggree chuck the cycle,its junk,i used to use it,its a waste of money,and lay off the products,half of them you dont really need,and i dont think they would cause these nitrites to be so high,this 1s got me thinking,i agrree with small wc each day,but keep testing as you go to see if they are coming down,as i said b4 your filtration is great.if after say 2-3 days,of doing daily wcs,if there is no change in the nitrite reading,i recomend that you should pull it down a restart it up again,i just had the excact same problem as you,but nitrates instead of nitrites,and i done water changes added this added that,plus i was getting help from a very good fishkeeper from this site,and my filtration is great too,and all my other water parameters were fine,ph,gh,kh,ammonia,nitirtes,but my nitrates were high,and no matter what i done i could not get them down,all my fish were fine and normall,but it was just the nitrates i could not get down,so after i couldnt think of anything else,i decided to pull it down a start it up again,even the person that was helping me was fresh out of ideas tooits up too you ofcourse,but i just cant think of anything else,and its looking like my situation was,even after the wcs youve done a 25% plus a 40%,thats a 65% wc,there should have been some change in the reading i would think,anyway hope this helps and good luck
Posted 22-Jan-2008 10:16
Krash7172
Fingerling
Posts: 32
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Votes: 1
Registered: 28-Nov-2007 Hokese, I don't mean any disrespect. Just thought I'd point out a mistake than many might make.

Sometimes 25 + 40 does not equal 65. After the initial 25% WC, there was 75% of the initial water remaining. The next change of 40% resulted in only 30% of the original water being changed so 55% of the original water was actually changed. In this case the difference isn't much but the point is that with each sequential WC you are actually replacing less of the original water and pollutant. The percentages only hold true if you check water chemestry before each WC and apply the percentage of water changed to those results.
Posted 22-Jan-2008 15:21
HOKESE

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yeah thats a good point,im with what your saying,but even after poniting this out,this still should have changed his readings even if only a tiny bit.
Posted 22-Jan-2008 16:18
longhairedgit


Fish Guru
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I know what hokese means, and I think if you follow the logic through you may have tipped the accumulative balance on the ammonia binding agents, forced a bacterial die off or surpassed the medias bacterial micropore limit, which often leads to no ammonia reading , but a high nitrite reading.


I've moved all the comments to the "poll" to the applicable
thread and deleted the poll.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

OK...

I guess I am looking for instant solution. Here is where I am.

Feeding has been reduced to every other day for the past 10 days. I have done 2 20% water changes; one yesterday and one today plus the 2 I did last week.

This time I have added only "Aqua Safe" and "Stability". The water changes were tested prior to putting it in the tank and Nitrites were at 0PPM. No Prime, or other water conditioners have been added.

All parameters are right on target:

PH 7.8-8.4. Ammonia is 0PPM, as well as Chlorine or Chloramines. However the Ntrites are still in the 2PPM + range.

How long before I start seeing results and the Nitrites go to normal levels?

i think you should have already seen a change,even if a tiny onei geuss keep doing as you are and keep testing,thats all i can say to do mate,im fresh out of ideasand if in a few more days there is still no change,i recomend starting it up again,i know this is a big task,and a pain in the bum,but,i think in a few days,if there is no change,then there is not guna be,youve already done a fair few wc,even a 40% didnt bring the tinyest change,and as i said this is what was happening to me but with nitrates,i done the same things,heaps of wcs,and chemicals,and no change,so i just started it again,but up to you mate,how are your fish doing,still ok?/:'