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Okay, I saw a really really beautiful tank on AGA, and wanted to achieve the same look. The tank had:

1. Bacopa australis, 2. Ludwigia arcuata, 3. Glossostigma elatinoides, 4. Hemianthus micranthemoides, 5. Cryptocoryne lucens

Here is a picture of the tank:

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004.cgi?Scale=258&op=showcase&category=0&vol=1&id=104

Now when I went out to buy Bacopa australis, instead of buying Bacopa Australis, I ended up buying Repens and I am tired of the trimming, removing old stems, replanting, trimming etc.

Could somebody suggest a better replacement. I am in no mood to achieve this look anymore, I currently have one Amazon sword, pygmy swords for foreground plants, and three broad leaved plants on the right side of my tank.

I need something to put in the background that wont be too much of a hassle to maintain. I dont mind the trimming, but I dont quite like the uprooting. How do cabomba's sound?

Last edited by Clownygirl at 14-Mar-2005 08:26

Your title is giving up on bacopas but you bought Repens, which I assume is Ludwigia Repens, completely different, so perhaps it should be giving up on Ludwigias.

Trimming and uprooting is a fact of life in the tank you saw. Unfortunately unavoidable.

I would avoid the Cambomba as this definately needs to be uprooted when trimming otherwise it looks awful.

You could try Bacopa Caroliniana. It's a bit bigger then the Australis so you should need less. Not the fastest grower in the world but would definately need to be uprooted from time to time. It will grow tall enought to fill in a background.

If you really want to avoid the trimming or uprooting some tall thin non stem plants may do. Vals or Aponogeton Crispus would do a nice background. No need to uproot them. Just avoid Jungle Vals, they get too big. Some of the bigger sags like Subulata may do also.

Some Brazillian Pennyworth might do also. Fast growing but when they reach the surface they will grow across the water and you can just trim at the desired height. It's not really a stem plant as such so it takes the trimming well without losing it's overall shape.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Clownygirl, I'd persevere. It takes time.My Panda Fun Palace is now ten years old and in some respects still evolving looks wise. But then experimenting with different plantings has been part of the fun. However, I won't be making the mistake of putting Elodea densa in there again (Americans know this plant as Anacharis) because under good illumination in a tropical aquarium, it grows like a weed.

Also, having browsed that site, I'd be wary of letting the aesthetic judgements of others sway you from producing a beautiful piece of 'river in the living room' that suits you and your fish. Chances are Takashi Amano would barf at the aesthetics of my aquarium, but I planned it with the fish in mind as well as my eye. So although there's a big expanse of open gravel that Amano would complain about, the Pandas are perfectly happy in their underwater Disneyland!

The trick here is to try one or two plant species at a time, and then stick with what works for you and your fish. It's amazing how beautiful a setup incrementally developed over time can be: not least because it gives you time to develop a 'feel' for what works and what doesn't. There are some wonderful aquaria on that site you linked to in your starting post, and I was disappointed to see some of the comments made by one or two of the judges, who seemed to be more interested in enforcing their own aesthetic prejudices than standing back and marvelling at a job well done. I'd be pleased with quite a few of those aquaria in my living room, if I had the funds!

Take time, don't lose heart, and don't be afraid to experiment. And take other people's aesthetic prejudices with a pinch of salt. If what you end up with makes you feel that you've achieved the 'piece of river in the living room' look, and your fish are happy in it, showing resplendent colours and possibly even spawning in the setup to boot (always the sign of happy fish!) then tell anyone who gets snarky to go take a running jump





Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I was disappointed to see some of the comments made by one or two of the judges, who seemed to be more interested in enforcing their own aesthetic prejudices

Cal,
I couldn't agree more. I thought Mr. Amano was a right pain in a** as a judge. If the plant choice, or rock/driftwood location weren't what he'd pick or where he'd put them he was incredibly dismissive. Don't think I saw one piece of constructive advice from him throughout the whole contest.

Clowny,
One other thing I thought of. You could try keeping the background stem plants in pots. While I wouldn't recommend this for every plant I think with stem plants it's not much of an issue. They don't grow huge roots and we usually chuck the roots out every few weeks anyway.

This makes it easier to trim as you don't have to pull up the plant and make a mess everytime. Justdrop the pot in and pull it up as neccessary.

I keep some stem plants in pots when I'm putting them in place where it is very difficult for me to reach the substrate or to crate illusions of height. The only thing to consider is that the pots should be invisible. You can do this by having rocks/driftwood/other plants in front of them.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Speaking of evolution, I now have a change to the appearance of my Panda Fun Palace™ ...

My Amazon Sword was looking a bit odd. Turns out it was splitting in two. So I hastened the process somewhat. Now I have two Amazon Swords in the centre ground of my aquarium.

Should have seen the muck on the roots when I uprooted it. Good job I was doing this in the middle of a gravel vac, or the aquarium would be a cesspool by now

Pandas seem to appreciate my removing the muck. That and a 50% water change means they're frolicking like mad again

Bensaf, your idea about pots sounds like a good one, especially if you need to move things around for gravel vac purposes. Only thing is, a fair amount of detritus might collect under them, so a good deep gravel vac will be the order of the day once the sleeves are rolled up for the task

Oh, and Clownygirl, once you get your desired 'look', post pics. Take a look at Dr Bonke's aquarium in the Photo Booth and it may give you some ideas. For that matter, check out as many pics of as many aquaria as you can, and if you alight upon something that stirs your passions when you see it, go for it. That's more or less how I went about building the Panda Fun Palace™ - I saw images of aquaria I liked, and tried reproducing the features that I thought would go well with my fish. Ten years later, and numerous rejected plant species down the line, and here I am, with a happy set of Pandas in an underwater Disneyland

Along the way, plants that were rejected included:

Elodea densa - grew like a weed. No swimming space for the fish unless I engaged in savage deforestation once a week

Vallisneria gigantea - accidentally bought it as standard Vallis. Grew to 3 feet long. Again, more like forestry than gardening!

Twisted Val - survived for quite some time, but objected to my deep gravel vac régime. While it did survive, it sprouted lots of runners and little plantlets. Trouble was, gravel vac'ing around them was a complete pain!

Cabomba - for some reason fine leaved plants have never worked for me. I have enough lighting for them, and the Otocinclus do a good job of keeping debris off them, but they put on a growth spurt for about 2 weeks, then die off.

Hygrophyla polysperma - had this for 3 years. Must have sold about £100 worth of cuttings back to the LFS! Trouble was, it attracted hair algae and I had to buy SAEs to nuke the hair algae which spread to my Java Ferns (sigh).

Water Wisteria - again, grows like stink, and turns the aquarium into a forestry exercise.

Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae - I wanted to try a carpet of this stuff on the floor, but it wouldn't grow. I've since found out it's a bit difficult to cultivate without all manner of fertiliser and CO2 assistance. Plus, now that I have Pandas, they might object if I tried getting some more

If I can find some, I might give a couple of Aponogeton species a go. I had these as a teenager and they worked well with my Anomalchromis thomasi and Silver Tip Tetras. Hopefully they'll integrate nicely with my current fish too. Trouble is I can't find them for love nor money where I live. Likewise, finding Bacopa where I live is a pain - another plant I'd like to try with the Pandas because it worked quite well in my teenage aquarium.

You live and learn


Last edited by Calilasseia at 13-Mar-2005 21:14

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

"I thought Mr. Amano was a right pain in as a judge. If the plant choice, or rock/driftwood location weren't what he'd pick or where he'd put them he was incredibly dismissive. Don't think I saw one piece of constructive advice from him throughout the whole contest."

I thought he gave out a lot of constructive advice concerning plant and rock arrangement, although, I agree; he's a real pain.

Last edited by Babelfish at 22-Mar-2005 10:26

He did give advice on rock and plant placement - but only in the sense of "I would have put it here so you should too".
While I would be the first to admit he's a master at rock and wood choice/placement. I just felt he didn't really offer much in the way of a judge for what was NOT a "Aquascape like Amano" contest. His comments were almost all along the lines of "the rock should be there and that species is not a good choice". Thought the other judges did a much better job.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

WOW, thanks!!! I was worried I was the only one who thought the guy sucked!! In fact I know I will cause a big stern with this, but I don't really like his tanks. They are to perfect to be considered nature tanks, and besides I agree more with the Dutch concept that with his, he's only reproducing natural landscaping into aquatic and in my opinion that is not what it's about. What he does, he does great, I have to recognize the effort, experience, and technique, but I find his comments imposing and way out of line. I did surf the whole contest just to make sure, and he never ever gave a positive comment, and I don't think that is correct from a judge.

And Clowny, a good choise IMO will be hygrophila. it's a really nice full looking plant it does not need trimming, once it get's to the top of the tank it stops growing, i have tryed it on different tank sizes and it always does the same, grows fast and full and then it stops at the surface.

I liked Dr Bonke's tank and little Mousling's tank. I also like Bensaf's tank a lot, but the problem is a lot of the LFS guys in my area dont quite know the names/scientific names of the plants.

The ones I can easliy get locally are:

Ludwiga
Bacopa
Amazon
Vallisneria
Foxtail
Hygrophilia with some difficulty
Some thing called Mint that had very thick stems

Just these, and basic varieties. I think I may have the single stemmed Bacopas and not Repens. I may have confused the two. Ludwigia's for some reason, dont seem to survive in my tank. I wouldnt consider them as an option.

I liked the Vallis in Li'l M's tank but my tank height is only 18 inches, which might prove to be a little too short for the vallis. The twisted ones didnt grow well in my tank either, so I am stuck with very few options.

Edit: I may have had Bacopa monnieri. I checked out a few pictures.

Last edited by Clownygirl at 14-Mar-2005 08:18

I couldln't help but find the comments on Amano interesting. I have bought two of his Nature Aquarium books in the series and those tanks don't nearly take my breath away in the manner that many of the tanks do that have won awards of the years on AGA, and some that didn't.

Is it just me?

Many of those submitted to the Amano contest just blew me away with their beauty, especially several of the winners. None of the pictures in his book have that effect on me, in fact, I was bored with some of them. While he may have chosen the winners and may be considered the master, I think some of the students of the trade may be far more artistic.