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Ich leads to ich, not temperature fluctuation (stress is not induced unless you are hinting at somewhere along 5-6 degrees in a short time period--many even consider the mimicry of natural temperature differences a healthy practice). Surprisingly, in a controlled enviornment, temperature changes very little. I have raised coldwater fish for quite some time (I kept darters long before I had ever set my eyes on my first neon), and have noticed perhaps a difference of 4 degrees tops between temperature extremities (rated at ten gallons---the larger the tank, the less the difference). A heater is not only a finnancial hindrance; they have the potential to be inaccurate and have a minimum temperature of around 72 degrees. One is usually capable of achieving such temperatures without the help of a heater (anywhere from 70-75 degrees is recommended for borellii).

Some plants I keep/have kept that will work in those conditions as long as you supplement them a bit:

Aponogetons
Java moss
Java fern
Anubias
Crypts
Bacopa monnieri (moneywort)
Frogbit (floating)
Some amazon swords
Hydrocotyle leucocephala (pennywort)
Hygrophila polysperma
Hygrophila corymbosa v. siamensis
Hygrophila difformis (wisteria)
Sagittaria sp.
Vallisneria sp.

Try a few out, I can't guarantee they will thrive in there but you won't know for sure until you try them. To give yourself a better chance for success you'll want to supplement them a bit, on lower light tanks I usually use root tabs and something like flourish for trace, occasionally some potassium or NO3 if it's needed. You may also want to use something like flourish excel as a source of carbon, keep in mind that this will result in faster growth and supplementation will be more important.

For the mopani wood, I buy mine at the LFS (local big al's), you can use locally collected *drift* wood but it takes a lot of work cleaning and disinfecting it. You don't want to use fresh or green wood because it will leech a lot of junk into your water and you'll have to soak it for a very long time outdoors. IMO it's better to spend the extra $10 or whatever and buy you wood from a reputable source, much less work involved. You can also order wood online if local stores don't carry it. Mopani wood is good because it leeches a lot of tannins and is really dense and heavy so it doesn't rot quickly, your apistogramma will appreciate it. Don't worry too much about the tannin, as long as you do regular water changes it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Oooooo Thanks

Oh dj, I think that is a plant I tried at one timeit did really well for me till the corries played hide and seak in itthen well like all my other plants, it was demolishedI don't know what it is about new plants in the tank, but unless I've burried them really well, they won't last longheck my guys even remove the weights from the plants:%) I'll run by the lfs tomorrow on my way home and find out the name. If it's what I think it is, it's supposed to be durable, likes iron, and does have a great look to it.

Now why exactly don't you want a jungle in your tankit's an awesome phenomenon once a month I pull 10 ft out and place it in other tanks So yes, I can understand not wanting it. I'll check in tomorrow with the name that I think belongs to what you want...supposed to be a low light plant as well heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

It's not your plant. But that's ok

It's a 20 watt bulb. I really don't want to upgrade, becasue I've already spent alot on this tank and I'm kinda saving my money now.

Besides, I don't have a green thumb and I don't plan on ever having one. I just need some indistructable plants to such up nitrites and make my fish happy.

Perhaps the marsillea I had referred to? I'm not sure.

Ooo, cup, we might have some progress here.
It's rooted. Very small, and it has the clover-like red leaves I talked about.

What is this cardinal clover you speak of? Is it a floating plant or a rooted one?

Marsillea?

Lobelia cardinalis?

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 08-Aug-2005 20:02

Last edited by Fallout at 08-Aug-2005 21:30

Then maybe anachris is a bit "too" good for my tank. I want tasteful, not a jungle If the plant is going to take over my tank, then I'm not going to be a happy camper. Actually, come to think of it, the anachris isn't to attractive to me. They remind me of seaweed and make me nausious but that little red plant was nice, just don't know the name....

djtj,

I scrolled trough the thread now twice but I cannot find the answer to how much light you have.

I would assume you have a 20W? Is there a chance that you could get a glass top for your tank (AGA sells them) and then add a double fluorescent hood with 40w to it. That would expand your choices of plants dramatically, in particular because your tank is only 12” high.

Or, even better, instead of the 2x20w hood above, get a 65w power compact light. Then you are really in business for plants, given that you might consider adding CO2.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Faster hatch rates make for smaller (and egnerally weaker) fry, as is the case in many cichlids. Borellii are subtropical fish, and I myself am in contact with a John Brecken who regularly breeds these fish and others of the genus. I will try and contact David Soares and see his opinion on the matter.

I bid thee good day.

I'll make a thread about it in hospital, babel, so we can continue the conversation.

Java fern is especially welcome for lining the caves of these hole spawners. They are quite appreciative of headcover as well, thus floating plants such as riccia would be nice. They are not obligate softwater fish, and thus, do not require driftwood, though it does look good. Caves can either be sculpted from quarry material or achieved through a well concealed pvc/breeding cone.


Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 09-Aug-2005 00:00

dj, you know i'm not the best with plants, but if you want something hardy, anacharis definately qualifies as such if you were closer, i'd just let you come by and pull some out of the 2.5 gallon, it's about time to "weed" out another 10 foot anyways Amazing what a little light on it will do...also some java moss on driftwood might be nice...I also have that growing well in my ten gallon and it doesn't have any special lighting running...heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

The petland guy suggested a hardy plant. I think it's called cardnial's thumb, or something to do with cardinals. It's a small plant that sort of has four-leaved clovers. However, the leaves are a light reddish color. I was thinking this would make a nice foregroud plant. And what about dwarf swords? Or anachris? These are some of the plants I've seen sold.

Last edited by Fallout at 08-Aug-2005 21:28

based on “The Krib”, the eggs of the above mentioned fish hatch 60% faster at 82 degrees than at 72 degrees and the fry appreciates the higher temp as well.


Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 08-Aug-2005 19:38

Last edited by Fallout at 08-Aug-2005 21:29

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

oh excuse me.
My only three cases of ich came from well maintained established tanks that had sudden temp fluctuations due to not having a heater in summer. If you wish to further this debate please start a seperate thread in the appropriate forum.

^_^[hr width='40%']"Has someone taken your faith? It's real, the [link=pain]http://babelfish.qwertydigital.com/" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link] you feel.
The life, the love, You die to heal.
The hope that starts, The broken hearts...
I’ve got another confession my friend, I’m no fool.
I’m getting tired of starting again, Somewhere new."

Tank: 20 gallon long (30"x12"x12" )

Stocking list:
8 Apistogramma borellii
3 ottos
6 marble hatchetfish

I definitely want to have a long piece of driftwood in the back of the tank. I plan on siliconing rocks on it to hold it down as well as a few "branches" in order to hide my various equipment. I'm, thinking of planting heavily in the middle and lighter at the sides. I want to use the plants to give both apistogramma species their own territory. Does anyone have any plants in mind? Do you have any suggestions? Maybe some sketches?



Last edited by djtj at 05-Aug-2005 22:30

All fish should have a heater . It prevents temperature fluctuations. Temperature fluctuations lead toich.

Java fern and anubias can both be tied to driftwood. Java fern must be tied down rather than planted on it's own as it'll die if the rhizome is burried. If you're getting some wood anyway that gives you a place to anchor them.

^_^[hr width='40%']"Has someone taken your faith? It's real, the [link=pain]http://babelfish.qwertydigital.com/" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link] you feel.
The life, the love, You die to heal.
The hope that starts, The broken hearts...
I’ve got another confession my friend, I’m no fool.
I’m getting tired of starting again, Somewhere new."

If you're getting borellii, you don't want a heater.

Ok, so I have 2 species of plants. How would you suggest I decorate? I was thinking a small piece of wood to cover the heater, filter, etc. I'd also put some large plants in the back as well.
Any suggestions, diagrams?

Last edited by djtj at 08-Aug-2005 12:03

Java fern

Anubias

.

^_^[hr width='40%']"Has someone taken your faith? It's real, the [link=pain]http://babelfish.qwertydigital.com/" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link] you feel.
The life, the love, You die to heal.
The hope that starts, The broken hearts...
I’ve got another confession my friend, I’m no fool.
I’m getting tired of starting again, Somewhere new."