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I have three 3.5 inch Clown Loaches that I love in my 55g tank.

But they are SO Good at sniffing out and franticaly digging "morcels" of food in my substrate that they wiggle frantically and bury themselves frequently at least head deep into it to get it to eat. My apparent problem is the size of the gravel is "too large" and their snouts show a little "white scuffs marks" that I know is not good or normal.

I'm changing the gravel to sand today to stop them "injuring" themselves....but should I treat the tank with anything to keep the "white scuffs" from getting infected...or something? (I have no empty isolation tank to put only them in, if I need to treat them).

PLEASE tell me if I should be concerned...and(beside the change to sand this evening after work)what to do, if so.

thanks

They should be fine without anything if your tank is clean and they are healthy; they heal up just fine in the wild without meds. If you really want to add something Melafix is what you want.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

thanks again, Shinigami

Actually, they are not little scrapes (or "scuffs"as I phrased earlier, really...but more like a 2mm white spot where the've each scraped/removed the "tips" of their snouts off down to below their orange coloring. I am concerned.

amazingly I already have a bottle of that. I'll use it!
How much would you recommend using after I switch the gravel to sand for my 55g cichlid tank with about 9 other various fish in it presently??

Also Shinigami,
Do you think the tank "clouding" from particles in the gravel as I'm removing it with the fish still inside...and from the new sand I'll replace it with will affect the little wounds detrimentally?

Couple of things, No the stuff that gets lifted up is not to bad. How I deal with it is add on extra filtration until its gone. As for sand, it might not be a good idea, as the sand will be continuously stirred up by the action of the fish, and water movement. Which will cause small particles to build up in the water column and then into the filter, also it has a tendency to get compacted and you will have to stir it with your fingers. Otherwise the compacted sand will hold Anaerobic bacteria which can cause poisonous gases to accumulate in the tank.

mts.gif" border="0"> I vote do you?
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FishKeeperJim,
Did you see my questions regarding gravel size/diameter for my newly acquired eartheaters (Gymnogeophagus rhabdotus, currently in a community tank with "course sand...fine gravel" 2mm in diameter...as apposed to the current cichlid tank gravel from my LFS at about .35 to .55 cm. in diameter), where people were recommending sand, or something in the 2mm size range.
http://fishprofiles.com/files/threads/37271.1.htm?7#

I'm confused now, but neither the Clowns or the Eartheaters can handle the aquarium gravel now in my cichlid tank.

No I missed that one. I thought when you said sand that you meant, "sandbox" type grains of sand, or silver sand. if you stick with the 1 mm size gravel you'll be fine.

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This is sand, not gravel. It's for saltwater tanks(or freshwater...the bag says according to the fish store owner).

And I'd guess the size is what you see in saltwater tanks..."pretty darned fine" would be my guess. Probably like tropical beach sand.

What if I kept the new black sand down to a little over an inch (3cm) deep? That would't compact. And the eartheaters and loaches would keep it turned over and loosened, right??

You need to make sure its not for a saltwater tank. If it is crushed coral sand it will raise your PH to 8.0. and they will sift through the surface but they wont get near the bottom of the tank and that is where the compaction will happen. Also sand that fine will cause abrasion on the impeller's in the filters and other equipment. As some of the particles will be so fine that they wont settle to the bottom of the tank. I have had sand in tanks before and it was more of a hassle than a benefit.

To test to see if it will affect the PH take a bit of it and add some vinegar to it if the Vinegar bubbles Dont use it in Freshwater.

mts.gif" border="0"> I vote do you?
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Melafix has dosage on the bottle. I do not recall if it recommends half dosage for scaleless and scaleless-like fish such as clown loaches, though.

Clouding as you remove gravel is probably detritus and other organic leftovers and wastes from your fish or fish food. Once back in the tank, they'll either settle or be picked up by the filter. They are not exactly dangerous to the fish, but they contribute to your tank being dirty and will raise nitrates in the water.

Sand should be washed before adding to the tank to minimize clouding. Takes a lot of water sometimes... Neither sand clouding or the sand itself harms the fish, unless the particles are extremely sharp; sharpness is usually a bigger problem with gravel, though.

Sand will compact even at half an inch if unmixed. Small bottom feeders such as Corys generally do not go very deep (although some Cory species will even burrow), while larger bottom feeders can easily go down to the tank bottom if they so choose. Eartheater, which take mouthfuls of substrate (rather than simply picking through it) will likely cause rather good turnover. However, even considering this, there is the likely chance that a fish will not turn over the whole sand bed, but rather focus their behavior on certain portions of the sand bed, thus still giving you the potential problem of anaerobic pockets in some portions of the sand bed. The best solution to this IMO is to have an extremely thin layer of sand.

You should also keep in mind the filter. A power filter isn't going to be so happy if an eartheater just happens to swim by and spit out a bunch of sand. Sand gets into the impeller and really grinds it up. Not exactly a good thing.

Make sure marine sand does not contain carbonates which will buffer your pH and cause it to rise. This can be tested with a drop of vinegar, which will cause carbonates to fizzle as carbonates become carbon dioxide. However, I think synthetic types of sands (such as colored sand) are generally safe.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Thanks guys,
I raised the power filter intakes up about 6 inches off the bottom...with 2 power filters working, the "crud" should still be sucked into the by the water column recirculating, right?

Here's what it is:[link= this is the stuff]
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~SearchStr~~action~view~idProduct~CS0821~idCategory~FISSDS~category~CaribSea_Tropic_Isle_Tahitian_Moon_Sand_20_lb_Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Substrates_Dry_Sand~vendor~.html[/link]

Over the weekend, I removed the "larger gravel stuff" and replaced it with an inch of sand for a day. One sad thing is that the sand was too fine for a big pleco...and it died...from ingesting it, I guess(?). The Bristlenose seems still seems fine though. But I decided to not leave only the sand in the bottom.

So I then removed nearly all the sand, except less than about a 1/2 inch of it.
I spent a whole day making and using a "custom made pasta strainer" that I made and drilled holes in to strain/separate the "large" particles of the original mixed sized black "heavy" gravel out....and was left with small black gravel of about 4mm diameter that I covered the sand to about .75 inch over the sand.

I'm waiting to see what happens when I bring a 3.5 inch eartheater over from my other tank.

I'll do the vinagar test tonight. The fishstore owner said the sand(very fine) is for either salt or freshwater. We'll see.

I wish I'g gotten medium small gravel from a sandblasting company to begin with!

It may be possible that you might have some waste leftover that even your eartheater's behavior doesn't kick back into the water current to be picked up.

I highly doubt your plec died from ingesting sand. I have an 8" plec with sand and it's perfectly fine.

Don't expect your substrate layers to last. With any sort of digging fish they'll turn your substrate upside down and inside out.

I am not familiar with this particular brand but their claim is that it's safe for freshwater tanks, so it should be fine.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

thank you about the pleco (maybe my glass is so clean a fish that size didn't have enough to eat).

I don't really care if the substrate stays "separated" and actually hope it will mix somewhat...at least everything is of a small size diameter to not injure my manic Clown Loach snouts and mouth of my "soon to be introduced" eartheather.

I read that Tropic Isle Tahitian Moon Sand is volcanic, not carbonate. My PH should not be affected. (of course that doesn't speak to it's "sharpness). But since it is combined with more volume of very small gravel than sand, I think (hope) I'm OK.

thanks,
I'll keep anyone interested posted on how the rest of my fish adapt to this.

dS

I never depend on the glass to feed my plecs. I feed my plecs directly with food such as algae wafers and fresh veggies, and they have the choice to clean the glass if they feel like it.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Yes, me too.
You can't keep them from eating off the bottom, especially when the food is there when feeding all the other fish.

"He" was eating on the bottom with all the others...until the next day when I found him dead on the second day of having only that sand as the substrate.

I wonder if the fact that the "sand" Is made from volcanic source (and possibly too "edgy/sharp?) that killed it. No other mortalities yet. In close inspection, many of the Tahitian "sand" particles do have sharp edges!