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Personally, I prefer sand or fine, natural river gravel...both work well for plants and corys.

What is mulm?

I have noticed a lot of mulm appearing on my substrate which I'll let go fo a while but untimately it detracts from the appearance of the tank and I suck it up. WITH A PYTHON! Geez!

Anyway, I did notice this morning that one of the cories barbels on closer inspection looked bent. In that it was sticking out at a funny angle halfway along it's length.

This is an intriguing turn of events, wouldn't you say?

I haven't had my cories long enough for personal experience with barbell problems. But, in the 70, I have a mixture of smooth peagravel (small/medium) from the local aggragate biz. It's very smooth and they're all over it, especially after the loaches have turned it over with their noses.

In the 55 I have a 50/50 mixture of epoxy coated aquarium gravel and sand. When I mix it up, instead of stirring, I scoop with a cupped hand and turn, it stays evenly mixed and sand does not sink below the gravel. So they have a nice mixture to play on. The plants are happy too.

Babelfish: I keep a nylon (toe section of old pantyhose) banded over the intake to prevent sand going into the filter, like they do to save fry, cheese cloth would work too.

This is my understanding of the barbel/gravel issue. It is not the sharp edges of the gravel that cause erosion of barbels. What causes this is the fact that rough gravel more easily harbors dirt and general detritus, and it is the subsequent infection of barbels that causes them to erode, much the same way horses' hooves will erode if their stalls are not mucked out. Keep the gravel carefully cleaned, and the barbels will heal. (Remember, cories are armored everywhere except their extremely sensitive barbels.) The good news is, that the barbels will grow back quite impressively.

Curare, any chance you have done a nitrAte reading lately on the tank ? Barbel erosion may not be solely one or the other, it might be a combonation of nitrAtes and the substrate.

^_^

Okay, quick question.

I've got 5 cories, in a 10 gal.

The smallest one is showing signs of barbel erosion, and some of the others only appear to have one barbel per side.

Now considering the smallest is about 3/4" and the biggest is 1 inch, are their barbels underdeveloped or are they being eroded?

I should point out that I have a river sand/gravel mix in my tank, there are some sharpish pebbles in there but for the most part they're smooth.

Some advice please from those in the know?

Wow, thanks for that....I didn't realise it would be so hard to grow plants in sand. I am a huge fan of driftwood with plants growing on it, and have a couple of these in my other tank, so that is a good suggestion....

Your cories look so cute buried in the sand, I'd love to be able to get it for them...I think I might try to get really fine soft gravel so I can avoid the stress of the possible anerobic pockets and the unsuccessful plant growth, becasue there's not much point in getting sand for the cories if it makes for a ruined filter, no plant growth and potentially bad water quality, they will hate me for that more than giving them gravel over sand!

Pots for the plants sounds interesting, let us know how you go Babelfish!

And thanks Calilasseia, I'll try to do some research into peat...

Cheers!

Once i swiched to a soft natural substrate, the barbel erosion problem stopped.

I'm joining in this one kinda late...but wanted to throw in a few expeirences..........
Yes of course the barbel erosion will stop once you switch substrates. A theory that I feel is more responsible for erosoion is the high nitrAtes (even over 40ppm). A complete switch over of substrates will stop the erosion because all the excess nitrAtes have been removed with the previous substrate. It's like the old saying goes "you hear hoofbeats you don't think zebras"....but sometimes it just might be zebras and not horses.

I have sand in with my corys and they LOVE it



I fear a little too much sometimes. But hey, so long as they're happy right .


I'm happy though, that they're not doing this anymore, as I had a number of heart attacks each time I caught them doing it when I first switched.


Back to the problem of substrate....and plants. I didnt' want to believe and so I have been attempting plants in a sand substrate. So far it doesn't really work. I think I'm the only person who can claim the award for having hygrophilia polysperma melt on her .

Additionally you can't mix sand with any larger grain sized substrate as the sand will quickly settle. I saw this happen in a week as I was changing a tank from gravel to sand. However there are a few ways you can have plants in a sand tank. Some plants can handle the sand (supposedly...ask over in planted ). You can also attach some plants like java fern and moss to driftwood or rocks. Or you can use pots for the plants. The latter one is what I'm currently working towards.....slowly .

Another thing to reaize is that sand will often ruin a filter (I'm dealing with that now as well). As for cleaning sand. All the waste settles on the surface so it's simply a matter of vacuming it up, then either turning the sand over carfully or getting some malasyian trumpet snails to do it for you. Sand can form anerobic pockets if not kept stirred.
HTH a teeny- tiny bit .

^_^



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[span class="edited"][Edited by Babelfish 2004-07-30 09:49][/span]

You could always try peat Charlotte ... aquarium peat is usually soft and free of sharp bits ... but I've never heard of anyone keeping Corys over peat ... anyone here done that?


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Ah!

That makes sense, well, maybe that is a bad idea and I should just use some fine, soft gravel....too many choices, too many conflicting opinions!

At least I know what sort of fish I want!!

I will have a shop around some LFSs to see what types of substrate are actually available and make my decision from there.....

Thanks!

Don't forget though, that the smallest particles will settle to the bottom, and the larger will end up on top of the substrate.

Thanks for the cleaning info jungle-jim!

I would prefer not to get a sharp substrate just in case....

"fracted clay substrates, like Onyx (I've used the sand only, the gravel is hideous) or fluorite, do not rate very high on the "hardness" scale"

Are these readily available at most LFSs?

mike77ca, what "soft natural substrate" did you switch to? Can your cories dig around in it or sift it?

I am going to go with the layering effect of a substrate for the plants and one for the cories on top I think.

Thanks again

IME "sharp" substrates do contribute (but are not the sole cause of) barbel erosion in cories. My rule of thumb is this: if, when rinsing gravel in a bucket by swishing it about with your hand, you find that your hand has several small scratches on it, don't use it with cories...if it can scratch my calloused hands, it can damage any fish that decides to rub against it. Typically the "quartz" or silica gravels sold in large quantities will do this...fracted clay substrates, like Onyx (I've used the sand only, the gravel is hideous) or fluorite, do not rate very high on the "hardness" scale, and don't scratch my hands when I'm rinsing them.

Barbel erosion is most likely the effect of infection, which can be caused by a number of things, amongst them, trauma from contact with a sharp substrate.

Good luck with the cories!

PS. For cleaning sand in a 20-gallon, I'd use an 18-24" python gravel vac with some tubing, and adjust the flowrate of your gravel-vac-effluent by putting your thumb over the end of the tube...this combination will allow you to adjust so you suck the dirt from the sand, but not suck the sand out of your tank!


[span class="edited"][Edited by jungle-jim 2004-07-29 12:14][/span]

[span class="edited"][Edited by jungle-jim 2004-07-29 12:15][/span]

I have seen barbel erosion on just about every substrate including fine sand, and even bare bottom tanks. The substrate is NOT the main cause.

Rounded gravel or sand is better for Corys, because then it won't damage their barbels.

I DO subscribe quite redily to the "theory" that coarse substrate contributes to barbel erosion. I have seen it. Once i swiched to a soft natural substrate, the barbel erosion problem stopped.


Isn't sand kind of hard to clean??

Yup! The substrate you mention will please both the plants and the cories. Just be sure you have enough food, and the cories will be super happy fish!

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Wow, thanks for the replies!

OK, I will look at getting either sand or very fine gravel so they will be happiest..and hopefully the plants will grow too.

Do you think that a layer of something like Eco Complete or fluorite covered by fine gravel or sand would work for both cories and plants?

It is the cories I am most interested in pleasing....so I'll leave the post here for now...

Thanks for all the advice

Precisely...which is why I keep Malayan trumpet snails in all my tanks....great for keeping the sand stirred and aerated. The reason I use the substrates I do is that they are most like the natural substrates corys are found on, but I have, in the past, kept corys on practically every substrate around with no problems.