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As reported in the thread on my latest trip to Maidenhead Aquatics, I bought a Siamese Algae Eater to deal with the blanket weed problem in the breeding aquarium.

Now, at the moment, the SAE is the ONLY occupant of the aquarium. Said aquarium has had a large fresh water change to facilitate the new arrival, and I've thinned out a lot of the Java Ferns so that it has some space to move about (though the aquarium is still what you might term 'lavishly furnished' in terms of greenery). So, having gone from being in a dealer aquarium where space was restricted, and being surrounded by numerous other fishes, my SAE how has a whole aquarium to itself, and lots of interesting nooks and crannies to explore.

Here's the problem.

Last time I bought SAEs was in 1999 to deal with hair algae in the main aquarium. They rapidly proved to be boisterous fishes. Even the tiny 1 inch juveniles (as tehy were upon first arrival) were inquisitive, and set about demolishing the algae present with undisguised relish. Within six weeks, those specimens had nuked my algae, and grown to 4 inches. Which led at the time to a somewhat interesting overcrowding problem that was only partly mitigated by my twice weekly water change and gravel vac regime, but that's another story.

Now, I have a SAE that is between 1.5 and 2 inches long, and overcrowding is not going to be a problem because it has the whole of the breeding aquarium to itself - it can grow as much as it wants and not cause any problems. However, unlike my previous SAEs, this one seems to be very definitely a 'low activity' fish. Which puzzles me.

Water quality isn't an issue (as I said, large water change to facilitate its arrival saw to that, and conditions are similar to those that persist in the main aquarium because, surprise surprise, the water source is the same) , and the fish shows no signs of illness. It carries its fins in a perky fashion without them being stiffly erect as though suffering from an electric shock (a good sign in most fishes), and I assume that it is eating something in there because it's stomach profile appears reasonably curved upon quick examination, but if it's tackling my algae, it's doing so by stealth.

Any idea why my SAE is so laid back? And should I worry about this as much as I am doing?



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I think the lack of boisterous behaviour is probably down to lack of social stimulus. The general antics SAE's get into when put into a social group will stimulate them into almost constant movement, and general mucking about. Your fish might just be doing very little because it has nothing to interact with. I consider them to be an intelligent and social fish, and Im definately going to do a few rewrites about their "territoriality", as when given enough room , I find it basically non-existant, and in fact I find the growth rates and size of SAE's kept in groups actually improves, as does their overall condition.


Basically I think this is a much misunderstood fish, and people seem to poach behavioural information from true flying foxes and CAE's that have no real bearing on the actual behaviour of SAE's. My personal opinion, reinforced by having many specimens in many aquaria over the years is that they are in fact intensely social, with greeting routines, happily close bodily contact and touching, and group resting behaviours. Mine rarely bite each other, and even when they do there isnt a mark.They even feed in organised lines, like a feeding fleet!It wouldnt be the first time a lot of recycled fishkeeping information ends in a fish keeping guide that is completely off.

Another contributary factor into SAE's being a bit slow when on the all algae diet, is the fact that these are actually omnivorous fish, ( i find the name SAE completely innapropriate , hence use the name siamese flying fox in preference) , and it may be entirely possible that they require digestion time while eating the all algae diet high in silicates, that have to be processed with the aid of bacterial help form the fish's gut fauna. If the fish wants to extract nutrition from an all algae diet, it will need to stay still in an area of reasonable temperature, and let the bacteria do their thing. An SAE on an all algae diet will be slower metabolically than one that gets animal protien. Give one a fix of protien and its like a wind up toy with a tight spring.

I think one of the reasons you might not see your SAE eating very much, is quite simply the speed they eat, its possible for an SAE to get all the food it needs for the day in a skim session lasting about 20 seconds if the algae is nice and thick.

Its a bit like your cory shoals. A couple of specimens do bugger all, but when you have a fleet, they become truly spectacular! Treat your SAE as being psychologically similar to cories, and youll get the best out of them.

Hope that helps. Bottom line I think he's a bit bored, and digesting some slow meals.

In fact just for you im gonna shoot some video of my SAE behaviour, and post it on photobucket. Gimme an hour.

Righty, here we are then. I dont usually dont put music of fish videos, but when i played it back I realised i swore quite profusely when rainbowish swam in front of the camera , so anyway this is a typical day for these guys and girls, and they spend more time together than not.

This is a 120 long aquarium , and if they didnt want to be together, they wouldnt be. Ps excuse all the crap and bubbles in the water, I just fed the baby angels with microfood, and its close to the venturi aerator, hence the millions of bubbles.

Its a 1 minute video optimised for 512 kb broadband, so obviously those with dail up might not wish to wait the hour it will take to load. Broadbands users though, go for your life.

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a245/longhairedgit/?action=view&current=Saimeseflyingfoxmovie.flv

Sometimes it just helps to see normal specimens doing their thing to help you figure out whats wrong with yours. Hope this helps.

Heres to SAE's. A social fish.

I have to agree, first thought to comes to mind is lack of friends. These fish are totally social beings. A trio is the minimum I would recommend, 6 being much better.
Once I lost 2 of my SAEs, the third demonstrated the same laid back, or more depressed behaviour yours is demonstrating.
I think its lonely and depressed.


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So in other words, get 2 more once the funds become available?


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Yup, but they do grow big and I dont consider them appropriate cagemates for fish like cories, they totally outcompete them for food, and often cause cories to scatter in terror when adult. Basically I tried it and things were fine until they broke the 3 inch mark. Its not so much that the SAE's are really panicky, so much as they like to take off at speed almost like flocking birds and resettle almost immediately. It seems to be their natural shoaling behaviour. The more you have , the bigger the impact of their constant "reshifting position".

But.... if you do get more then you will probably be treated to entertaining shoaling behavior performed while sitting. I call this one the "bus stop" .

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a245/longhairedgit/IMG_3882-1.jpg

Well the aquarium housing the lone SAE at the moment isn't going to be used for anything other than housing SAEs until the algae is well and truly nuked, and even then, chances are that I'll hang on to them for some time because they're fun fish to keep. I might decide to find a new home for them in a year's time when I want to start breeding other fishes in earnest again, but until the algae problem is knocked on the head, that won't be figuring in my plans, so if I do get two more SAEs they'll have a tank all to themselves.

The next project in line once I have an aquarium that's free of blanket weed is to acquire some Anomalochromis thomasi Cichlids and let them breed in there. But that's a long term project that I don't see coming to fruition for at least six months at the moment. Until then, the SAEs will have the place to themselves and probably be VERY happy as a result.



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Double post.

Just returned from Maidenhead Aquatics with two more SAEs, which are now acclimatised and occupying the aquarium.

The transformation that's taken place with the original inhabitant is AMAZING. It's like a switch has been thrown, and he's suddenly come to life - he's beetling about the aquarium with the other two with almost as much energy as my Panda Corys, which is a MASSIVE difference from his shyness prior to adding the other two SAEs. All three of them are having what appears to be a jolly good frolic about, pausing for an occasional conversation (at least that's what it looks like!) before setting off again on an exploration of the aquarium decor. The moment the original one spotted the two newcomers, the transformation was INSTANT - he and the other two are now having a fine old time zipping in and out of caves, swimming up the glass looking for bits of algae that I missed with the scraper and generally behaving in a happy fishy manner.

Moral of the story? If you get SAEs, get at least three. They will be MUCH happier in a small group. If you have space for six or more, so much the better, but of course you'll need a decent sized aquarium for long term maintenance of six of them, given the size they reach!

As i type this, they're having a good patrol about the aquarium, and I reckon the countdown for my blanket weed has well and truly begun - once these guys get to work on it, it is doomed. Muhahahaha.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thats great news, happy SAE's always give me a wry grin. I changed the profile to reflect this info so that more people treat them differently from flying foxes.

Its a hell of a change isnt it? /:'

Its a hell of a change isnt it?

That's an UNDERSTATEMENT LHG, mine have been engaging in madcap frolicking more usually associated by me with panda Corys for a few hours now, and two of them have only just this minute decided that they're going to take a breather behind the big lump of art deco bogwood.

Correction - they're out again, and having fun with my liberal provision of caves.

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I think your right about it beeing greeting and almost "a conversation" they do seem to vibrate their mouths so fast you could dub almost any speech onto it. It seems more than coincidence that after such sessions they will decide to move off in unison and all do a specific task together. It not talking as we know it, but at the bare minimum its kind of getting each other to do things together. Its weird how one fish will go and take a look somewhere, then come back and get all the others to take a look. I wouldnt be surprised if their constant jaw oscillation creates waves in the water each fish can read. Maybe its a communication thing that makes up for not having a particularly expressive body language. All theory of course, but it certainly seems that way. Mine seem to go and collect each other if theres food on offer, and if the family group has been split into different tanks from each other for cleaning (no more than say twice a year for 6 months) they instantly spend the first few minutes saying their hellos and getting to know each other again.No matter if food is on offer or other moody fish are in the way, they ignore everything to immediately re-establish shoal bonds.

Perhaps this was a bit of reuniting a family group, I assume they may have met each other before at maidenhead? Personally I think SAE's have an almost photgraphic memory as regards their siblings, and since they are often collected in family groups, perhaps its one of the main reasons they dont breed in captivity often? Who, knows? I will test the thoery eventually though, but for now Im kind of maxed out for tankspace.

Longhair,
your theory is definitely spot on. It has been proven that Bala Sharks can remember school mates even after being seperated for a decade or more.
Fish need to have highly developed memories, it makes sense. You need to remember where the food is, where your friends are, where the predators hang out, if you want to survive, memory is one of your main skills you need developed.


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