FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Yay! I now am the proud parent of 10 little panda eggs!!!
This spawning came by accident when I was filling up the tank last night I accidentally put in water that was a few degrees cooler than I really wanted. But I am glad I did that now. I didnt realize they were breeding until I saw my largest female in a corner with a male. And they were doing the famous T- shape. They kinda shook a little then the male went on his way and the female deposited her two little eggs that she was cupping in her anal fins on a plant root. Then a few minutes later the male came back and they repeated that process. It was very cool to watch. I found more eggs in the gravel too. I got out the ten eggs and put them in a little container becasue I saw alot getting eaten and the temp was slowly rising and I know panda fry dont do good in warmer water. In the container is some java moss, and the pebbles that a few of the eggs are stuck to. The water in the container will stay pretty cool. I suspect I will have 10 little fry in four days so I was just needing any advice. I read cali's article on breding and I think I have a general idea as to what should be done. Once they hatch I will start feeding them liquid fry food. I hope these little guys work out cause it will be very fun watching them grow and my panda shoal will then be at 21! Wish me luck!

Congratulations, Ryan. I just recently purchased my first panda's a short time ago and I'm hoping to have them spawn for me some day. Good luck with the eggs and fry.

Jim

---

Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Man, congratulations ryan, I hope that the eggs hatch. When you said you had good news I thought it would be about the rams but maybe you will get both, I'll try the water change thing wioth mine since they are all grown up now.

-Vincent

If they're fertile, the eggs should remain translucent for apporximately 48 hours, at which point you should start to see two little black dots appearing ... these are the embryonic eyes. Eggs at this stage are said to be "eyed up". Hatching takes place another 48 hours later at around 73-72 degrees F. Keep the eggs and fry below 80 degrees F, and preferably nearer 73 because Panda fry like it cool.

If any of the eggs develop a 'cloudy' appearance in the first 48 hours, they're infertile and have acquired egg fungus. Remove such eggs immediately because they won't hatch.

For the future, so that you don't get caught by surprise, I suggest the following:

[1] Get a nice big ball of Java Moss for the Pandas to spawn in. Then you can put the ball of Java Moss into a container (whilst still underwater of course - don't let atmospheric air get to the eggs!), remove it (with eggs) and transfer it to a nursery aquarium.

[2] Get yourself some antifungal agent. Tetra make a nice one called FungiStop that's specifically formulated for egg protection. You won't need large quantities in a small hatchery aquarium, and you can keep the fry in something small like a 10G until they're about 4 weeks old.

However, if you decide to move the fry to a new home from their original nursery, do so with EXTREME care. Panda fry are VERY sensitive to changes in water conditions until they're 20 weeks old. Even at that age, I would advise spending a good hour acclimatising them to a new home and gradually mixing in the new water from their new home into the bag. With 4 week old fry, I would spend 2 hours plus on the acclimatisation procedure if you decide they need moving for some reason.

First appearance of adult-like colouration takes place at about 6 weeks, but is briefly interrupted by the appearance of 'pepper dots' on the body, which disappear completely at around 10 to 12 weeks. If you ever raise fry for sale, do NOT ship them to a dealer until they're 20 weeks old, and insist to the dealer that you spend an hour acclimatising them, because that way you'll improve their survival rate MASSIVELY. And earn more money as a result.

Funny yours should have just spawned ... coincidentally mine have spawned again as I type this ...


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

So ryan I have a baby that I found just now to, what a coincidence, seeing it has color it must be atleast 6 weeks old.

-Vincent

Thank you Cali and everyone else for the input. I woke up this morning to find 6 of my 10 eggs infertile But the other still look excellent! Seems like it is another girls turn today as she and the same male from yesterday are showing behaviors of breeding. Today or tomorrow I will go get some of the antifungal and baby food. I dont have the room at all for a ten gallon tank, could I keep them in a breeder box in the main tank? Thanks for the help!

Oh Cali, I had 4 large clumps of Java Moss in there but she decided to put them on the glass, on anubias roots, and in the gravel,, silly girl. I moved them all to a breeder box in the amin tank (it has the same water) I was hoping they would to better in here as the water would stay cleaner and a little warmer.

Oh, and I was wondering when the feamle who spawned yesterday will be ready to spawn again?

Well tomorrow will be the eggs 2nd day out of moms tummy. I am hoping to see eyes tomorrow. All eggs are still ooking good and the orangish/ tanish color that means they are healthy. Tomorrow or the next day I will have to go pic up some liquid food. The female who was exhibiting spawning behavior with the male did not spawn today and now the temp i sback up to 76 so I guess it wont happen.

Why don't you feed them Infusoria & Microworms, instead of Liquid Food?.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/corydoras/
Member of the Malta Aquarist Society - 1970.
http://www.maltaaquarist.com

I have infusoria avaiable to them too. Well the embyros are developing very nicely. They are getting nice and dark and I see eyes. Last night I even saw one twirl around in the egg. They should hatch very soon. A question: will some hatch like a day or more before/after some? Cause soem eggs dont look as developed as others.

It's possible that there'll be a spread of up to 18 hours between the first one hatching and the last one. Don't forget that the eggs are laid over a 5 hour period typically, so the last eggs out of the female are fertilised 5 hours after the first ones, and there's always individual development times to add on to that. Usually, though, once 4 days from the moment of fertilisation has elapsed, they are all hatched. Of course, if the temperature drops below 72 degrees F, this will increase the hatching time, and if the temperature goes above, it will decrease it - however, above around 75 degrees, this goes into reverse because Panda eggs hatch preferentially in water below 75 degrees F in the wild. If the temperature goes above 78, you could have problems, and if it goes above 82, the eggs will probably die.

Of course, while 72 degrees F is the 'target temperature' for hatching (and 4 days between fertilisation and hatching is based upon this) a little variation either way won't do any harm - no need to nail the temperature to 72 to an accuracy of less than 0.1 degrees (which with standard aquarium heating equipment is next to impossible anyway - you'd need a laboratory standard thermostatic bath for that, and one of those capable of being a nursery for the fry after hatching would set you back several hundred dollars!), just make sure that the temperature doesn't vary wildly.

Oh, if you have an infusoria culture running to feed the fry, all the better. However, I find that the optimum results come from alternate feedings of infusoria and liquid fry food - the infusoria provides them with the live food that boost certain aspects of their development (in particular immune systems) and the liquid fry food enables them to build body mass quickly. In any case, in an aquarium that's been running for a long time such as my big breeding aquarium (it's been 'live' for two years now) you'll get infusoria type organisms cropping up in there and the liquid fry food will fuel their development, so the Panda fry will get the best of both worlds in an established nursery. Particularly if the nursery has a nice big pile of Java Moss in there - infusorians seem to develop around Java Moss at a rate of knots if conditions are right.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I've never had panda's spawn so I'm not sure about how they'll hatch out, but I have bred other types of cory's and the fry have hatched out over 1-3 days difference, so I'm assuming that could happen. Again, as always when it comes to panda's, Cali would be the one with the answer.

Jim

---

Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Thanks for the replies Cali and Oldtimer,
Today is the fourth day since the eggs have been layed. The temp is at 75 degrees.

Ok, is it bad that it is day 6 and they have not hatched? I am worried. There are still embryos in the eggs....

Nevermind I have fry!!!!!

congratulations ryan!

another thing that has been bothering me thoug his that in panda memeber club it should be member not memeber

-Vincent

Congrats, Ryan!! That's really great. Can you get us some photo's? Keep us posted as to how they're doing.

Jim

---

Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Oh wow Bud thanks for telling me...I must have been tired when I wrote that. Anyway I changed it. My fry that hatched is doing well. He hides in the moss alot. I sometiems see him swimming around though. I was wondering if I should be feeding now? I put in some food....but he still has a yolk sac. The other egg still hasnt hatched but hopfully will today. Thanks for the help...and thanks again Bud for corecting me!