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I just thought of something I didn't mention before. In this particular tank, I have two mated Angels, about silver dollar sized bodies, maybe a little larger. They spawned on Dec. 30 and again today I noticed eggs once more. (I thought it was usually almost a month between spawning)> ANYWAY, I had some dead pandas right before the last spawning and then another one this week. Could the ANGELS BE KILLING THE PANDAS>????

I just thought of something I didn't mention before. In this particular tank, I have two mated Angels, about silver dollar sized bodies, maybe a little larger. They spawned on Dec. 30 and again today I noticed eggs once more. (I thought it was usually almost a month between spawning)> ANYWAY, I had some dead pandas right before the last spawning and then another one this week. Could the ANGELS BE KILLING THE PANDAS>????

BTW, CALLI: Great analogy of the dinosaurs and the plecs. I loved it (tanks with armor!!)

Thanks Calilasseia for the link, I suppose I shouldn't have been as shocked as I was when I was lucky enough to catch him in action. I was sure I had something that even Gary Roland had never diagnosed before. LOL Just found perfectly dead perfect cories of the three lined varity as well as pandas.

RasboraMary, I've not heard of Angels killing Corys before, but I suspect that if the Corys became too inquisitive about the eggs, they'd end up receiving a fair amount of retribution. Angels are Cichlids after all

Might be a good idea to put the Angels in their own aquarium so that they can spawn in peace. You might improve your Cory survival chances by doing so too ...

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

..........Just lost another one.

I think I would move either the angels or the plec out of that tank for even a small amount of time as two or three days. You have been loosing pandas so regularly that even in a few days you should be able to define a culprit. How many pandas do you have left?

jan

I started w/7 Pandas and that number grew to 20. I now have about 14 left (if that.) They are just the neatest little fish and it makes me sick that they are dying. I was so thrilled that they were breeding like crazy when I didn't even try. I have a 65 gallon hex, I may move the Plec in their tonight. I can't move the angels into that tank, as they fight with the 5 angels that are already in there. This is sooooo frustrating!!!!

Puddle Cat, that sounds like a pretty effective way for a Plec to fend off just about *any* comers ... after all, these things are covered in spiny armour. If you remember those pics of dinosaurs from your primary school days, there's one called Ankylosaurus, which was basically a sort of four legged tank covered in spiny armour, and boasting a huge club on the end of its tail. A big one could hit 35 feet in length, and the tail club at the end could be half a ton in weight! See this link for a quick rundown:

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/dinos/Ankylosaurus.html

Anyway, big Plecs would be able to pull off much the same trick. Makes sense now you've mentioned it in relation to your own Plec. And a big one (say 12 inches) would smack a poor Panda Cory like a baseball bat hitting a home run. Especially some of the L-numbers with whacking great spiky odontodes on the tail that look like self-propelled thorn bushes ... ouch!

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

So how is it going? Any definite answers yet?

jan

No. And I lost another one. I honestly am beginning to believe the pistol whip theory of the Rhino Plec tail. I can't explain anything else with this. It breaks my heart, my Pandas are so cool and were breeding quite a bit. The one that just got killed or died was the mother who had all the babies

Hi again, You know its a new year and maybe a new 20 or 30 gal long species tank for the remainder of your pandas is just the way to solve this? You can then enjoy all your fish and have the fun of decorating a special home for them. I enjoy the species tanks I have and it sounds like you enjoy them enough to set them up in their own haven. Keep us informed and good luck.

jan

ANOTHER one tonight. This one, however, was not completely dead when I got home, so I did observe her for a few minutes before euthanizing her. It looked like one side of her was white, and part of tail missing. (they were all healthy last night). I don't know if something attacked her while she was healthy or if she was attacked after she became initially ill. She was still, then every minute or so would make herky-jerky motions. It was nauseating. The Rhino Plec is going to LFS tomorrow......I have been watching him closely and I think the response about his tail whipping these fish around may be right on. One other possibility, Pandas like to do their "power dives" to the surface and back. I wonder, and I know this will sound funny, if they are hitting their heads or something on my driftwood on their way back down from their power diving??? I think you may be right though, time to start a new Panda Haven........thanks for the suggestion and the support

I am now thorougly convinced of the "dinosaur theory." There is no other explanation. Only my pandas are dying, and I witness the pleco thrashing it's tail about, not meaning to harm anyone, just doing what a rhino plec does. I was going to take him to LFS, but I feel bad about that too. And, at 6-8 inches long, he is probably too big to move to my 65 gallon hex.

Hello RasboraMary. Doctor Calilasseia here.

Pandas are pretty good at maintaining perspective about obstacles when rising to the surface to take air, then diving back again. Likewise, when they surf the powerhead bubbles (which mine do frequently), they're pretty nimble fish. Plus, when my males spawn, you want to see the speed at which they dash around, yet somehow manage to avoid collisions (except with the Lemon Tetras, which I think they do deliberately for fun ).

I suspect your Rhino Plec has suddenly found itself a new sport, and that sport is costing you your Pandas. Personally, I'd be wary of mixing something as prized as Pandas with anything that's big enough to carry the threat of inflicting damage upon them. I suspect that they don't encounter big Plecs in their native waters, and they are incessantly inqusitive fish: chances are your Rhino Plec doesn't welcome the attention (sigh). A pity, because although I haven't seen a Rhino Plec, I gather it's an attractive fish.

Looks like the Rhino's gotta go if you want to hang on to your Pandas. It's a pity you'r 5,000 miles away across an ocean, because if you lived closer by, I have 4 very nice happy Pandas that I bred myself looking for someone nice and kind to take them in so I can free up the breeding aquarium they're temporarily calling home for Mata Hari and the boys


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thank you so very much for your response. "Pleckie Boy" as I call my Rhino has a new home effective tomorrow. He is actually a pretty neat fish, albeit a bit filthy. I just added up all the facts and nothing but your dinosaur theory made sense. AFter all, my other fish are fine and my clown loaches (much larger than the Pandas) are okay too. If I lived by you I'd take those four little gems off your hands in a heartbeat! Good luck finding them a new home and thanks again for the advice. I will update in a couple of weeks after Pleckie Boy is gone

I have many Panda Corys (started w/7, but they have been proliferating and I was up to 20). I have lost about five of them in the last two weeks. Up until this time (I got the first 7 about 9 months ago) they have done wonderfully. The water tests are perfect (Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia) although PH is 8.6 but always has been.

There is no sign of disease at all. Everyone is very healthy. My question is this: Could my Rhino Plec (now about 6-7 inches long) be attacking the Pandas? I have seen him chase them about, but never really attack them. The baby Pandas play all around him and he doesn't attack them.

I have 72 Gallon bowfront, AquaClear 500 Powerhead, Temp set at 78 degrees. My tank also includes three clown loaches, three zebra Danios, 14 Rasbora Harlequins and a Rubber Plec. A bit overstocked with the birth of all the Pandas, I know.

I feed about 2-4 Algae Discs a day and about 10 Shrimp pellets per day (along with flake food). I also give dried shrimp and worms for treats.

Any ideas? Do you think it's the Rhino Plec? Keep in mind, these Pandas have thrived for months (and continue to breed).

Grrrr..........found another deceased last night when I got home from work. All of these deaths are occuring while I am at work during hte day. It was perfectly plump healthy Panda COry. I am at a loss.

Yup, I drive that far every two weeks to shop for anything. We have two small convience stores locally but thats about it.

Just to clear things up, my plec did not "feast on live cories". He would do a whip lash move and send them shooting across the tank. When I actually saw him do that and send one reeling is when I moved him; then I quit finding "bodies" with no apparent cause of death. Just for the heck of it, do you have another tank you could put him in for awhile to see if your loss's stop? Good luck

jan