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Ottos constantly eat algae, they are fairly active swimmers, and they have pretty quick metabolisms. The ottos that I've kept have been poop machines, just like most other algae eating fish. Everything that goes in must come out, and quite a lot of algae goes into these little guys. I'd say that ottos produce quite a bit more waste than neon tetras, and even cories.

Last edited by sirbooks at 15-Nov-2004 12:02

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Ah, my pet store must have the BN Pleco labeled as a "common," as they specify it gets to 5". Not surprising, as BN's are very "common" in my area. I'm used to the nocturnal cats, as I adore my syno who I rarely see in daylight. As long as I have something to look at while I have my morning coffee in the dark, I'm all set.

The only reason I'm shy about the Ottos is that they didn't last too long in my other 10g, and it was hard to find them missing due to their size. I'll keep pondering, a the tank has not been bought yet (amazingly) and I'm restraining myself from a pet store shopping spree.

Ah, Otocinclus and poop. This is becoming something of a favourite topic here

Mine are pretty active. And produce a fair amount of poop. Consequently, if you're going to keep decent numbers of them (as I do), make sure the filtration sysrtem is up to scratch, and that you gravel vac pretty regularly

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I have a Bristlenose Pleco in my 10g, and the little dude does a bang-up job I tell you.
I find mine is out and about all day long, but espescially in the evening feeding around 9-10pm.
A Common would be much too large, I think really your only "algae eating" pleco option is a BN. Others either grow too large, or stay small but dont eat much algae.


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My ottos don't eat my algae, they eat my sinking shrimp pellets. So much algae in my tank lol. I'm talking about the common algae that they do eat, i don't expect them to eat any other algae, but they just plain don't eat algae, and if they do they barely eat any.

Don't let this discourage you from getting them though

Last edited by seedkiros at 16-Nov-2004 21:07

Common plecos grow much too large for a ten gallon tank. They reach about a foot and a half, and would have no room to even turn around in there. You could have a bristlenose, though. They are great algae eaters, and only reach five inches. However, they are nocturnal, and you probably wouldn't see one out and about much.

For bright light plants, I'd go with more than 2 wpg. 3-4 should probably be best, though it depends on the plant.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Very interesting conversation, I must say. Only fish lovers can sit around and learn while talking about poop.

Not to change the subject that I myself started, but I have been drooling over the common plecos at the local store. How much off my original target of algae cleanup would I be with two plecos?

I have this horrible habit of wanting a simple tank then going overboard when planning the fish, as I absolutely love catfish.

I do want to keep the fish to a minimum, but also be able to see some once in a while. The main theme in the tank will definately be the plants, but a tank needs to have some activity IMO.

Also, since you guys seem to know your stuff about plants, how can I get 2wpg in a 10gal for the bright light plants I want?

Remember, however, that parrotfish are carnivores, not herbivores, and still produce large amounts of ammonia because of their relatively active lifestyle. It's fecal matter definitely not PURE sand, either, as there is no organism in the world that will completely uptake all the parts of it's food--

Furthermore, herbivore feces have much of the nutrients removed from the actual plant material itself, but that doesn't mean that the stuff excreted won't rot and isn't high in phosphates (carnivores generally have higher concentrations of P in their fecal matter, while herbivores are more consistent in their nitrogen excretion) and recycled N.

I'm just refering to articles in the TFH as well as AFM. And my own experiences. I don't usually sit around and count how often my fish poops, LOL.

But, there is a difference in the waste (poop wize) of plant eaters and protein eaters. Plant waste (poop wize) is almost completely digested, with the excriment being that of matterials that don't give off as much ammonia during the final breakdown process, Usually just the shells of the plant material left, and these are low in organic materials.

So again, I state, that all fish cannot be stereotyped with other fish.

To give you an example of poop waste not even being considered as a waste or bio load; In the ocean there are fish called parrot fish. A very beautiful fish. You won't see them much in the aquaria trade though, because their staple food is coral. They bite off a piece of hard coral, and digest the organic parts. When they poop it is completely composed of the coral skeleton. It is actually speculated by many scientist and marine biologists, that many of the beaches of the world are composed of 75-100% parrot fish poop, being the coral substrate/sand. I have actually witnessed a parot fish poop and caught it in mid water, and examined it out of the water. It is pure crushed coral skeleton, or sand.

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There is always a bigger fish...

OK, in the works is a 10 gal planted with the only fish being an algae clanup crew for the green algae that loves to accumulate on java fern. Is an otto my best bet, and how many to survive mostly on the algae?

e census is that a one inch neon tetra gives off almost double the waste that a full grown otto does

Ive heard the opposite, i hear Ottos give of plenty of waste just like any other catfish!

Marc is right in the sense that the less active the fish, the less ammonia produced (solid waste negligible). However, IME, ottos are quite the active swimmers and are generally speaking, constantly eating and very active, so I'm sure those numbers are at least a bit off (less than half of a neon?---neones are generally smaller). Furthermore, though easily removed via a water change, solid waste does still somewhat pollute the water, and ottos definitely have that area covered.

Actually, the ottos have been studied and determined that they give off hardly any waste as compared to other fish. The census is that a one inch neon tetra gives off almost double the waste that a full grown otto does. These fish are not active swimmers, and thus do not have a high metabolism rate. So their waste produced is extremely low. It has even been suggested that, for a plant tank, you can keep one otto to every two gallons of water and not even count them towards the bio-load at all. And, this being a plant tank with no other fish, it is not that much, because the plants will use the waste as fertilizer. I have a 40 gal grow out tank for plants, and have over 200 ottos in it. They keep the algae under control, as I have extreme high watt output lights over this tank to make the plants grow quicker. I do not do water changes, nor have I, in over 4 years now. In the tank is one single sponge filter with the air at a slow rate, and I run CO2 on it, and a 400 watt MH lighting it. I just tested it for this post, and the readings were, ammonia 0 nitrites 0 nitrates <10. I do not know exactly how many ottos are in there, because yes, some have died. But they have been replaced with new ones, as they breed all the time. I have actually sold groups of them out. But to best guess it, I would still say from those I see in there, that there is around 200. The only feedings this tank gets, is some spirilina powder about once per week or so.

And, they want an algae clean up crew only, to keep the algae down, and not been seen probably. As well, with these little guys, you only need suplimental feedings, rather than regular feedings. This in its self, decreases the bioload of wasted fish foods.

As for this being a catfish, yes it is classified as a catfish. But but it is not a "sterotypic" catfish. It is an algae only eating fish. No fish should be sterotyped into its class. As all fish are different. A 2 inch cory will give of 4-5 times more waste than an otto. As their metabolism rate is much much higher than that of the otto.



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There is always a bigger fish...

Bristlenose Pleco
Ottos
Hillstream Loach
Apple Snails
Ramshorn Snails
Cherry Shrimp
Amana Shrimp
Malaysian Trumpet Snails


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I suggest about a dozen ottos for that size tank, maybe even about 16-20.

Are you serious?

Ottos get to be 2" long, and being catfish (and especially being plecos), they produce a lot of waste for their size. Normally I wouldn't even think of putting more than 5-6 in there, but since it's a planted tank, I think about 8 could live comfortably in there.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

10 gallon algae eaters:
ottos
certain species of ancistrus
paraottos
Golden Black Spot Hypo.

If the tank is to be just plants and no other fish, I suggest about a dozen ottos for that size tank, maybe even about 16-20. They will do nicely. They are a fun fish to watch when kept to a species tank. And they may breed for you. A suggestion would be to add some supplimental feedings of spirinela flakes twice a week or so. Once in the tank, they are a hardy little fish. Not agressive at all, and as for the algea, these guys are the best to keeping it off the plants as well as everywhere else. The plecos will not be able to get into the tight and/or small places of the plants.

Also, since just plants, and you may want some algea growth for the fishes, I suggest a light regimine of 12-16 hours per day. This will help in plant growth as well as enough algea for the fishes to survive.

HTH....



Last edited by ACIDRAIN at 14-Nov-2004 12:10

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There is always a bigger fish...

Three ottos would be fine in there, but you would have to supplement their diet. They would keep the tank completely algae-free, so some veggies and algae wafers would be welcomed.
Or, you could probably get away with keeping a bristlenose, or some other small, algae eating pleco. They won't do as good a job on the algae, but will require supplements nonetheless.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."