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O.K. with your guy's help I ruled out Pictus Catfish, what about Upside down catfish? Would they be compatible with livebearers

At this point, the question I have to as is: which Upside Down Catfish?

The reason being that if you count the whole of the Genus Synodontis as comprising "Upside down Catfishes", then you have something like 40 species to choose from! And, the majority of these are unlikely to be compatible with your livebearers for the simple reason that they grow to be big. For example, Synodontis eupterus, known to me as the Featherfin Upside Down Cat, and to many American Board members as the Featherfin Squeaker, will reach 8 inches with ease, and at that size is certainly capable of eating Guppies and Platies. Even some smaller Mollies might disappear down its gullet during the night!

If, however, you are thinking of Synodontis nigriventris, the species that was first introduced to the hobby as the "Upside Down Catfish", then this is a more moderate sized species, at 4 inches, and will probably coexist alongside the larger livebearers without too many hitches. Having said that, there is the question of water chemistry to consider. Synodontis nigriventris is a native of the Congo, and although it is adaptable and will tolerate moderately hard, alkaline water, it ideally prefers softer and slightly acidic water, as this profile from PlanetCatfish illustrates. Therefore keeping it with Mollies will require a bit of juggling, as Mollies prefer hard, alkaline water, and tend not to fare well in soft, acid water.

However, this species of Upside Down Catfish is adaptable, and as the profile from PlanetCatfish says, it should be kept in a small group, as per Corydoras. Larger Synodontis tend to be more territorial and have somewhat differing requirements in this respect: the extreme examples being Synodontis angelicus, which is very definitely territorial (and at 8 inches, also needs a LOT of space), and the predatory Synodontis acanthomias, which may be capable of reaching 12 inches.

If you intend to keep Synodontis nigriventris, then make sure you have LOTS of caves for them. As a safe rule of thumb, ensure that there is at least one cave per catfish, with one or two spare, and ideally two caves per fish plus one or two spare just to make sure. That way, they won't be squabbling over real estate property rights!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

well it seems cali beat me to it so i'll only add a few things...What size tank and which livebearers and what other fish are going in there?
The only synos i would reconmend with livebearers would be synodontis nigriventris (which you won't see that often, i don't mind that but you might) or microsynodontis, which are common in NZ but i am not sure about in usa..

cfd


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Billy was a scientist, Billy is no more. For what he thought was H20, was H2SO4

There are only really two species of cats commonly mistaken for the nigrev., those being the featherfin and the false upsie, respectively. All three have similar coloration, but true nigrevs have a rather spiny gill plate and more ounced rays throughout. Neither angelicus or eureps are known for eating fish the size of platies (or, for that matter, being fiercely territorial): having kept several featherfins with an assorment of small community fish, some as miniscule as bbgs, I can, with a certain degree of confidence, state that your fish should be fine, regardless of which of the three you end up getting (try for the real thing, though--they're better suited for smaller end tanks) and Cass is analyzing the subject at hand at little too much.

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 08-Mar-2005 02:41

Pays to be safe C_o_L

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Not really, as none of the above species look alike, except the similarly named nigrita and the eureptus. The sailfin and lack of the ounced interperc. quickly separates the upsie from the rest. The listed aren't much of a threat to anything larger than, say 1", either, even the black spotted feather mouth (in fact, along with the aforementioned, our display tank is chock full of monetzuma swordtails, and the two have coexisted peacefully without any preadation---but god forbid you put another bottom feeder in there). Tell you what, the next time you see a feather mouth or a angelicus labelled as a syno nitegriv., you let me know, as I'll send them a line informing them that they're losing approximately thirty bucks for two similarly sized fish (at the least). Of course, one glance at the barbels should allow you to distinguish the USD syno from the rest, not to mention the lack of coloration in the undersides and flanks in young black spots and the purple coloration on the angelicus.


Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 11-Mar-2005 21:31

That comment of yours - "God forbid you put another bottom feeder in there" - was waht I was referring to when I said that angelicus were territorial. While there are Synodontis species (and quite a few of them) that will coexist together, angelicus would probably not get along with another Synodontis in the aquarium. As for Synodontis eupterus, juveniles get along quite nicely, but as they grow older, I suspect males in particular will start to enforce their real estate property rights on their favourite caves with vigour. As for acnathomias, Kobayagawa lists this along with notatus and schal as three very predatory Synodontis species that are unlikely to be compatible with any other Synodontis, and which furthermore are likely to help themselves to smaller fish for lunch. JellyfishPJs in the chat room put up a picture of a catfish he calls "Rambo" to identify, which is a dead ringer for acanthomias, and which he told me in the chat room is the only fish he's seen that will make a Flowerhorn Cichlid back down in a fight. Which gives a fair indication of what to expect, especially as his specimen is still a juvenile at 4 inches, and will hit 12 in time to come with no trouble at all. Indeed, ScotCat reports that acanthomias is reputed to hit 2 feet in the wild, making it a juggernaut among the Synodontis.

By the way, what would your reaction be if I told you that my LFS recently sold juvenile eupterus for £2.95 each? (That's around $5.50 US). I expected them to be £20 each ...


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I was referring to the blantant territorial nature of feather mouth, not angelicus. IME, angelicus are fine community fish, and get along well with most other cats. A fairly well known discus breeder in my area (Limm--he's also a family friend) owns a BREATHTAKING congo river basin tank with a large fine spot angelicus, several USD cats, glass catfish, congo spotted puffer, and several rare pelvachromis, and all the fish were in fine shape.

Eupterus cats are robust, true, but not territorial, save towards conspecifics. My late eupt (male--I've done the check ) shared a nice nook with a nigrita (and the watmel royal that replaced it) in the DW.

The information provided by your book is interesting, however, unless you've actually raised an feathermouth/ schall (they are beauties; one of the aquarium club's members has one), or even at least seen one in true form, it's rather hard to judge temperaments. As I stated,

In response to the your good friend from the chat, well, synos are indeed tough cookies, which is not to say that they'll go out of their way to act aggressively. They are more than capable of defending themselves under even the most hostile conditions.

Furthermore, natural size is not a good determination of aquaria size, as most fish are stunted a good deal even in the largest of tanks. Both of the only two acanthomias I ever had the honor of knowing personally were both mild mannered to molly sized fish, less of course, pterygoplicthys pardalis and other bottom feeders placed inthe same tank.

Eupterus go for much less than the angelicus and feather mouth I was referring to. Heck, with my employee discount, I can score an 8" featherfin for approximately 25 dollars.

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 12-Mar-2005 21:20