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i had my "moonlight" LED set up on tonight so i could watch my bristlenose pleco,south american bumblebee cat,and school of cories browse their way through the tank.

i enjoy watching them in the first place, but tonight i had a purpouse. i turned it on so i could deal out food. the barbs have the habit of picking everything apart before it reaches the bottom, so if its a shrimp pellet it tends to get torn to shreds then left as waste on the bottom and it takes the corys and cat longer to eat it.

anyway, my pleco is contentely sucking on a quarter slice of zuchinni tied to a pebble, when the shrimp pellets hit the bottom. the first thing the bumblebee does is steal a shrimp pellet from my bronze cory and try to make off to the nearest rock cave with it...then i saw something REALLY WEIRD....my 1.5" bristlenose pleco chases off my 2.5" bumblebee cat and starts slurping on the shrimp pellet...i was suprised to say the least. quite aggresive behavior...then one of my barbs wakes up and trys to nibble the pellet the pleco is sucking on...the pleco chases it off quickly, and slaps it with its tail when the offending barb tries again two more times.

finally the pleco goes back to its zuchinni and the bumblebee and the cories bicker over the remaining shrimp.


now, the two things that i thought were really weird about that were that a pleco likes shrimp more than zuchinni, and that my normally very docile pleco can chase off fish normally much more aggresive than it and twice its size with such ease...for being an alge eater it was quite swift and viscous,lol...

anyone else noticed behavior like this from their plecos?

Sure, bristlenose plecos do it all of the time. Mine actually out-competed some cory cats to their death. They are probably better viewed as semi-agressive towards other bottom feeders.

As far as the diet issue, almost all plecos prefer a meaty diet to veggie based. Those shrimp pellets are what I actually feed my BNS. Their vegetative matter comes from gnawing on the driftwood.

Goodluck, there is not much you can do there.

Empty chairs at empty tables, the room silent, forlorn.

Acistrus cannot digest lignin. Thus, they do not eat driftwood. In their natural environment, they are limnivorous, feeding on organic films composed primarily of protein poor microscopic organisms and plenty of algae, collectively referred to as awfuchs. Protein, when chanced upon, is a precious commodity. However, in large amounts, protein is detrimental to otherwise more herbivorously inclined species such as bristlenoses, resulting in intestinal blockage, amongst a multitude of other digestive complications (especially in fry/smaller indivduals). This of course, is disregarding the rannunculus subgenus, and goes for what are commonly referred to as "spirulina wafers" as well, which are in fact, almost entirely protein. In short, to avoid such disturbances, try and spplement as much vegetable matter as possible and underfeed with the shrimp pellets.

ok, i was kinda worried about her eating the shrimp, she didnt eat hardly any though before she went back to her zuchinni...i feed the cat and corys a mixture vegetable wafers and some shrimp and also some community fish pellets (mostly protien), the pleco wont touch those, she mostly eats algae and the vegie wafers, and of course the weekly zuchinni...

Great.

Not sure about detrimental, he has been alive for 3 years and is over 6 inches hrug:

Couldn't keep him away if I wanted to




Empty chairs at empty tables, the room silent, forlorn.

If you don't believe me, there are plenty of cases of bloat relating both to adult and *especially* fry death all over the place. Considering how one of the species believed to have created what is now known as "ancistrus domesticus" can grow to12" and past 20 years, well, yeah...At three years, many ancistrus only just reach maturity

It's like a kids/candy sort of relationship. Bad things usually taste pretty darn good.



Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 24-Nov-2005 19:30

It's like a kids/candy sort of relationship. Bad things usually taste pretty darn good.

You've just described me and chocolate fudge cake

Funnily enough, I've had Otocinclus develop quite a taste for freeze dried Tubifexworms. Including my infamous 'Methuselah' Otocinclus that lived to be over nine years old. But then my Otocinclus get their 'pet rocks' as well!

For those newcomers unfamiliar with the Otocinclus Pet Rock™, this is basically any solid object (be it a rock, small piece of bogwood or even a garish plastic ornament) that is allowed to soak in water while exposed to daylight (ideally sunshine if possible) until it acquires a nice coating of green fur. Pop in an aquarium containing Otocinclus and watch them munch away happily!

Gather together several such objects, and soak them in rotation - basically, crop rotation with algae. When one is depleted by Otocinclus grazing, remove it and put it back in the queue. You'll never run out of algae for them to eat with that trick


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Not sure plecs scavenging is unnatural, even a cow eats about 50lbs of bugs a year. Under wild conditions lots of plecs would come across dead and decaying matter at the bottom of rivers and lakes, in nature its handy to get the occasional boost of protien, gives you a size and strength advantage.Over specialisation breeds weakness, and many vegetarians move to animal protien during lean times, or to get essential minerals and vitamins or enzymes they might be missing. In captivity though it may be unnatural to regularly provide protien , you want to be keeping things at about 95% veggies and algae or you may find your animals experiencing the unpleasant side effects of a fat clogged liver. Most vegetarian fish are unused to processing animal fats, and consequently dont have the chemical means to flush it from the system or metabolise it.But as a very occasional treat, no problem.

Last edited by longhairedgit at 28-Nov-2005 02:16

“Not sure plecs scavenging is unnatural, even a cow eats about 50lbs of bugs a year. Under wild conditions lots of plecs would come across dead and decaying matter at the bottom of rivers and lakes, in nature its handy to get the occasional boost of protien, gives you a size and strength advantage.”

I'm not sure this coincides with a 1996 gut analysis of wild a. brevifilis, which shows a diet comprised entirely of awfuchs and algae. Sure, they'll feed on the occasional carcass, but you seem to greatly overestimate the commonplaceness of decomposing animal matter lying on the bottom of, in this case, the Colombian badlands. Most small, darting fish, other scavenging cats such as robust pims, trichs, and even callicthyids, and large, opportunistic characins will have long stripped the corpse of anything worth eating. As most loricariid owners know, they are generally the last to the meal.

“Over specialisation breeds weakness, and many vegetarians move to animal protien during lean times, or to get essential minerals and vitamins or enzymes they might be missing. In captivity though it may be unnatural to regularly provide protien , you want to be keeping things at about 95% veggies and algae or you may find your animals experiencing the unpleasant side effects of a fat clogged liver. Most vegetarian fish are unused to processing animal fats, and consequently dont have the chemical means to flush it from the system or metabolise it.But as a very occasional treat, no problem.”

That’s what I’m saying. Heck, come spawning season, many experienced breeders swear by two weeks of nothing but pure live bloodworms and kale, but the rest of the time it’s a strict vegetable diet, supplemented by the occasional protein treat.

I think that was more an addition to the information I provided than a contradiction, but there you go. I think cupoflifenoodles nearly disagrees with me a lot.

We have this habit of providing information that doesnt disprove each other , and usually coming to exactly the same conclusion via totally different routes ] .

So to save anyone the lengthy version of the arguement thats about to arrive any minute, we will probably agree on:

Yes, some usually vegetarian fish will eat some animal protien at some times with no harm, and no, its not a good idea to give it to them too often.

Last edited by longhairedgit at 29-Nov-2005 10:07

OK Ok Ok I got one for you all. Is this the same rule for a common pleco? I have heard that once the start getting bigger...say over 6 inches or something like that they will start wanting to eat more regular fish food in stead of algae.

Right now I have a common pleco (he is the light brown kind not the dark one). I have had it for about 4 or 5 years now and he pulls a lot of the same aggression issues as the first poster was talking about. He even chases off my 5-6 inch male convict. Should I cut back on the shirmp pellets? I also have some algae waffers. I have a Feather fin cat fish in the tank too and I want that fish to be able to get food that it needs too.

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I wasn't disagreeing with you. In fact, more often than not, especially regarding animal ethics, I'm on your side. I was just saying that these fish run into protein less often than you'd think, as seen from quoted study.

Yup I know cupoflifenoodles old buddy, I actually quite like thrashing out the stuff we do with a someone with a good brain, you might even have changed my mind on clown plecs in the other thread, and that perhaps I got lucky with my clowns being a bit more adaptable than most as concerns bogwood. Having seen a bunch in the lfs lately that looked like hell and when I suggested bogwood they all went into hyper munchie mode. Makes me wonder if theres a difference in diet due to regional variation or perhaps a subspecies that just looks identical. Thats the trouble with plecs, identifying them can be seriously difficult.

( That was very nearly a retraction from me then- did you spot it? doesnt happen often .lol )Since the rather youthful shop assistant was so eager to listen and thusly saved his stock it reminded me that perhaps I should be a bit more flexible and perhaps open to what I think is even contradictory information, nature is always variable enough to surprise, and I guess both I and 12 little clown plecs should me most grateful for cupoflifenoodles who put that useful doubt in my head!

On that other plec issue just mentioned im sure plecs turning to meats a bit more in the diet isnt that unusual, but the development of their dentition really means that algae eating/ veg eating and bogwood scraping is likely to remain their primary source of food. The length of the gastrotintestinal tract in average speciments would be important too, presumably under dissection youd find a lot of specialist vegetarian feeders would have a longer tract for the more difficult processes of digestion they have to shoulder, more omnivorous creatures tend to have shorter tracts, the guts of specialist carnivores and blood feeders can be very short indeed. I think most plecs are probably heavy on the veg and algae, but its a diverse group, and there are specialist feeders that will always make it impossible to provide blanket feeding conditions for all species. I think the rather obvious lesson learned from this one is that for most species with exceptions, you will need to provide algae, perhaps some bogwood, and a little animal protien as an occasional boost. Over provision of protien will probably lead to fatty degeneration of the liver.



Last edited by longhairedgit at 04-Dec-2005 02:45