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Around 2 weeks ago I bought a pair of Apistogramma Cacateudies "Double Red" and they are in QT. Today, I found a cluster of light brownish eggs stuck on the underside of a piece of driftwood. To give the fry, once hatched, more chance I removed 2 rainbows I also had in QT, but I've left 2 platys & 2 endlers in the tank with them.

Will the Apistos be good enough parents to protect their fry from platys & endlers. I can move the platys & endlers, but I'd have to put them in with guppys (which I don't want to interbreed with the endlers) & with different coloured platys, which I was also trying not to mix the colours in breeding.

Are endlers too small to eat the fry anyway? If necessary, I will move the platys, but do you think I need to?

EDIT: There's one oto in there too - is the oto a threat to the fry?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers
TW

If they are typical Apistogrammas, they should care for the eggs and fry. The female usually guards and fans the eggs and the males takes care of the surrounding territory. The eggs *may* not hatch the first time because it can take a few tries for the parents to get it right, but if they do, they have good odds. Only the platies would be a problem with the young fish, but if the tank has enough cover then you should have some babies survive.

Barring any heavy stress that upsets them, the pair should spawn fairly regularly, even after you take them out of quarantine. Have fun with them.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Thanks sirbooks

I don't really want to move the platys, but think I may do so anyway. If the eggs do not hatch, do I need to remove them in a couple weeks time, so as not to dirty the water?

Oh, I do hope the hatch though. Maybe it's not their first time (who knows). I was told they were wild caught & they were sold as an established pair. I find them not to be nervous fish, which I thought wild caught would be. I am not very good at catching fish & last night I spent some considerable time catching my 2 rainbows & 1 bolivan to move them out of the QT (now the nursery). These fish gave me a merry chase, running (swimming) away from my net like crazy. The male apisto, however, calmly held his ground if I came close to him with the net. In fact, I had to be careful not to bump him, as he watched proceedings.

Cheers
TW

The parents should eat the eggs if they do not hatch. Otherwise yes, they'd need to be removed.

A lot of Apistos are calm like that. They won't budge even if a net is right on top of them, and some even allow you to net them without getting stressed out.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

How are things going with the tank and eggs?




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There is water at the bottom of the ocean

Hi Theresa

Well, I've moved most of the fish out of the tank, leaving only the parents, one oto & 2 endlers. Oh, and the eggs too. No sign of any babies & I don't like to pick up the driftwood again. Mrs Cacateudies is nearly always in her little driftwood cave with the eggs, coming out only briefly and Mr Cacateudies pratrols the area.

The first time I saw the eggs was Tuesday night & I don't know how long they'd been there. How long would you wait before peeking under the driftwood again & how do you tell if the eggs are dead (ie never going to hatch)?

Thought I should probably tie some stocking round the filter-in take, in case the eggs do hatch. Don't want the poor things being sucked up.

How are yours going, has anyone paired up. I'll skip to your post now & see if you have any news there.

Cheers
TW

My book says that the eggs take about two days to hatch, followed by a several day wait until the fry become free-swimming. In their "wiggler" stage (before they can swim), the baby fish will probably stay on top of the substrate.

If the eggs are in bad shape, you'll notice that they are an opaque white color. They may have been attacked by fungus, or just weren't fertilized. If you want to check the eggs soon and they still haven't hatched, you should be able to see the fry inside. The eyes are easy to spot.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

oh well, I don't know what happened. The eggs are simply gone. So, did the parents eat them after all. The only other fish in there are 2 endlers & 1 oto.

Or could my filter have sucked them up? I only got around to putting a stocking over the inlet pipe after I already discovered the eggs were missing.

I hope they don't learn the habit of eating them. Hope they try again soon.

Cheers
TW

What is the hardness of your water? If the water is too hard, this is most likely the reason they did not hatch. It has been seen that with many of the Apistos, they will spawn in most all water parameters. The problem lies with the hatching of the eggs. If the water is too hard, the shells of the eggs will absorb the minerals in the water and become to hard for the fry to hatch out. If you have an RO unit, or have the ability to get RO water (like from your lfs), mix it about 50/50 with your tap water. This usually works for the species you are currently keeping. The ph has not shown to be an issue with most of the Apistos available at your lfs these days. But this does not mean it wont be with the fish you have, just mostly not an issue these days. However, the hardness has still been an issue from what I have been hearing. You can also try peat in your filter to reduce the hardness of the water.

Give this a try and let us know how it goes.

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There is always a bigger fish...

Hi ACIDRAIN

I think my water is soft. I have a KH test for carbonate hardness. My water tests 2dKH - so that is soft isn't it. Is it too soft? Can the water be too soft for the eggs? If so, how best do I raise the hardness?

I don't have a GH test kit. Should I get one?

Mrs Apisto C seems to have picked a new hidy hole, under a rock at the back of the tank, but I'm sure no eggs yet as both she her mate are out & about, generally swimming about. A couple of times she is returning to that same hiding hole. If she picks there for her next spawn, it will be harder to see what is happening.

Cheers
TW

The hardness of your water sounds pretty much around the correct measurements. I would check the GH though, but it will most likely be low as well.

It must be something else then.

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There is always a bigger fish...

ive heard apistos are alot like rams. 1st couple of spawns they dont know what they are doing and the eggs are lost. i would give it a couple more attempts before attempting to change anything.

Thanks ACIDRAIN & Sin in Style. I'll keep my fingers crossed for next time. In another tank, I currently have eggs from my Apistogramma bitaeniata tefe, who only took up residence on Saturday. So I guess that means they're happy in their new home. Fingers crossed for them, but LFS told me they are still juveniles, so it may go the same way as the Cacateudies, if they're first timers.

Thanks for your advice. I'll have to buy a test kit for GH, as I don't have one now.

Cheers
TW

If you've read earlier in this thread, you'll know the first batch of eggs just plain disappeared.

Today, I saw mum herding a swarm of maybe 20-30 free swimming fry around the front of the tank.

I didn't see the eggs, or see them as wigglers. I think her "nest" was at the back of the tank, as for the last week, she has spent most of her time back there & when she came out to eat, she was always coming out from the same rock at the back.

Today must be the first time either they can swim free, or that mum felt they should be allowed to venture out with her. She has found a little cranny in a rock near the front of the tank now & she seems to be keeping them there.

I've very excited & hope this bunch makes it. Only other occupants are otos & I think they're vegetarians, aren't they? So, I hope they are fairly safe?

Cheers
TW

Congratulations!

Oh, for future reference, if you think egg fungus is likely to be a problem, there's a product you can obtain that has always worked well for me (assuming Tetra ship this outside of Europe of course) - it's called Tetra FungiStop. It's an aquarium fungicide formulated with egg protection in mind, and I've used it with my Pandas.

Reading your latest success story makes me want to go out and buy some Apistogrammas and try and copy you ... trouble is, there but for the lack of backing capital go I (sigh), and I'm saving up for Anomalochromis thomasi anyway ...


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I sincerely doubt that ottos would be a danger to the fry. They aren't designed to eat living fish, and they just aren't large enough to do so. I don't think they'll have any inclination towards the babies.

Good job with the fry, sounds like you have a good chance of raising lots!

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Thanks Calilasseia & sirbooks.

Thanks for the Tetra FungiStop tip. I don't know if it's in Aus or not, but I'll look for it. When I bought the parents, I bought a new piece of driftwood/anubia that had been in LFS tank for 6 months. I popped this in the tank with them. It was on this piece of driftwood that the 1st batch of disappearing eggs were laid. This piece of driftwood continually grows white fluffly stuff on it - is that fungus? I have removed it & scrubbed it off several times, but it regrows each time. Nothing else in any of my tanks has this white fluffy growth, but it's a really nice little piece of wood with a very healthy & attractive anubia on it. I wonder if this wood has a tendency to fungus (if that's what the white stuff is) if that's why the 1st eggs disappeared? Maybe the FungiStop product will help, as I like this wood & don't want to get rid of it.

Sirbooks, I hope that she can raise lots of her babies & especially with only the otos, I hope she has a good chance.

In my other tank, my apisto bitaeniata is still guarding the last of her surviving fry (since 23 July). Each day it is looking a little bigger & so my fingers are crossed there too. She is guarding against 2 pencil fish, but they have to stay in the tank, as otherwise, she was giving her mate too hard a time.

As a side track comment here, her remaining fry shows no fear. When I am squirting BBS where the baby is with my long eye dropper, mum swims away while I do this - but I can almost bump her baby with the dropper & he does not move away. Probably not a good thing that he doesn't appear to have learned any fear - which he might need to save himself from the pencil fish, when mum is no longer guarding. Is it usual that the fry have no fear?

Thanks for your advice.

Cheers
TW

Congrats, and good job.

IMO, yes it is common for fry to show no fear. They do not know what fear is yet, nor what there is to fear out there. But rest assured, mom will show them and they will learn.

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There is always a bigger fish...