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I have a couple of Pseudotropheus lombardoi (one male and two females). I was wondering what could be some possible signs of breeding.

†Aquapickle†

some things are,more aggression than normall,the fishes colour dramaticly darkens(breeding dress),they mite dig up the gravel more then normall,it depends on the fish.some have the same behavour, others dont,but if a spawn is close,u will pretty much know,if you normally watch your fish closely,u will pick up on the difference in the fishes behavour,also the male can hastle and nip at the females,in a attempt to get her to lay so he can fertilize,maybe u could tell us a bit about your fishes behavour then we will have a better idea if a spawn is closebut anyway good luck

I have one male kenny, and two females, i think he selected the larger female, and is quite often chasing her around. He dug a huge cave between two of my rocks, and he guards it quite well. It looks like the anal area is becoming somewhat irregularly large(right above the fin, it sticks out more). If you get what i am saying. The male stays by the cave quite often, they are eating quite a bit of food. The male is quite young, and his bars were going away, but this morning they seemed a little darker.

Im not sure if this helps.

I could try to get some pics if that would help.

Thanks!

†Aquapickle†

mmmmmm.it sounds like a spawn could be close,the digging and gaurding sound correct,increased appitite,and the colour can come and go dependeing on the fishes mood.but the part of the fish that u said is becoming large is this on the male or female(i assume the female),and has there been any lockjawing,or circling

Yes the female's anal area has increased in size.
Yeah last night the male got the female to come over to the cave, and he like got really tight, and like spazzed out while swimming around her. He is almost like vibrating while swimming around her. If by lock jaw you mean like for more than three seconds, then i am not aware of any of that. I will watch more closely and see if i can find some more of their behaviors.

Thanks again Hokese!

†Aquapickle†

when u say vibrating aroung her,do u mean like a type of shaking,if so a spawn is close i rekon,most of my cichlids do the spwan dance or shake,good luck

Yeah he shakes. Sweet.

Do you have any other info on like what will happen once the eggs are laid, and if there is anything i need to do. If i am not mistaken, they will take care of their young right?

One last question, are the females always holding eggs?

Thanks a ton Hokese you gave me a way better idea of whats going on. Thanks

†Aquapickle†

yes most cichlids are pretty good when it comes to parenting skills,i not 100% sure but i think mum does hold the fry,and which ever 1 does hold the fry ive heard to b carefull when feeding as the fry can be swollowed by mistake,oh and the shaking is pretty much as sure sign that a spawn is close,and as for doing anything for them youve pretty much done it all,just sit back and enjoy,once the fry have been let go you can crush up some food for them or get some fry food my fry dont really care as long as they can eat it.if you really want to find more in depth info just put the name of the fish into google serch and go from there.

Ok sweet. Thanks!

†Aquapickle†

Your lombardoi are mouthbrooders.

The noticeable protrusion you saw immediately ahead of the anal fin in the female in particular was the genital papilla. This emerges when the fishes are preparing to spawn. The female genital papilla allows her to place eggs with precision on a substrate prior to fertilisation, whilst the male genital papilla allows the male to target each egg for fertilisation with similar precision. Thus, the probability that all eggs are fertile is increased significantly.

Once the eggs are laid, the male fertilises them, and if lombardoi exhibits typical Mbuna behaviour, what you should see happening (if you are fortunate enough to be able to see the spawning process in full, and the fishes haven't hidden themselves out of sight during spawning) is the female following the male to pick up freshly fertilised eggs in her buccal pouch for brooding. However, behaviour is variable in this respect with Mbuna species, and to make matters more interesting, the spots that appear on the anal fin of many male Mbuna (described as 'egg spots' or 'egg dummies' because of their appearance) may not always function as cues to the female. I believe the jury is still out with respect to some species, though in the case of fishes such as Metriaclima zebra, that explanation (known as the Wicklerian interpretation, after the scientist who first proposed it) is largely accepted as valid. However, this page reports that the 'egg dummy' on lombardoi is a single large egg spot, and is used more for species identification than as a breeding behavioural cue. The reference cited is the following:

Couldridge, V.C.K. 2002. Experimental manipulation of male eggspots demonstrates female preference for one large spot in Pseudotropheus lombardoi. Journal of Fish Biology (March) 60 (3): 726-730.

According to this reference, female lombardoi exhibit a marked preference for males with one large egg spot, and if given a choice, mate with these instead of males with one small egg spot or two egg spots. Consequently, for this species, the Wicklerian interpretation for the presence of the egg spot may be invalid.

Of course, this does not preclude the possibility that the egg spot performs a dual function - namely species identification cue AND spawning behavioural cue - but in the case of lombardoi, the former function seems to matter more, whilst in the case of Metriaclima zebra, the latter function appears to take precedence.

There you go.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

So if i am getting what you're saying about the egg spot, a female will more likely breed with a male with a large egg spot. My male was not very easy to identify, he has one very small egg spot, almost unnoticeable, i only knew he was a male when he began changing color. With this smaller egg spot, will the spawn be less likely to happen? He is the only male in the tank.

†Aquapickle†

If he's the only male, the females will breed with him.

If the females have a choice of males, however, and the other males have bigger egg spots, he'll be left on the shelf as it were. Though this is not an experiment to try in anything other than a VERY large aquarium, given how aggressive male lombardoi can be!

Is your male a relatively young specimen? It's possible the egg spot might not be fully developed. It might grow larger as he grows older, though I'd treat this idea as speculative on my part until someone with long-term experience of this species in numbers can verify this.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

see there u go now that is good info,im not really 100% when it comes to africans,ive mostly kept sa,ca(bad boys)cichlids...but i did try

Yeah he is quite young, i bought him like two months ago, and he was completely blue like the female. Now he is almost completely solid gold. Now that i think of it, he didn't have an egg spot before, and now it seems as if it is beginning to show up.

I'll see what happens as he ages.

Could the female choose to be unresponsive to the male trying to get her to lay eggs? It seems as if he chases her all over, but she wont ever go with him to the cave he dug until i turn the tank light off.



†Aquapickle†

Female Cichlids can be picky, yes.

Plus, you have to remember that the species is a maternal mouthbrooder. The female, if she DOES spawn, will be unavailable to spawn with the male for some time whilst she nurses the eggs and developing fry.

Now, I don't know if females of lombardoi fast during nursing (as happens for a non-Rift African Cichlid called Pseudocrenilabrus multicolor) or whether the female lombardoi continues to eat during nursing. If she fasts, then it is advisable to give her at least 3 weeks on her own once she's released the fry for good, to build her up for the next round of breeding. Otherwise, the male may literally breed her to death. If the female continues feeding herself whilst nursing the eggs and fry, then this is a less critical issue.

That is, however, one of the fun aspects of Mbuna - the spawning may often take place in secret, and the only way you find out that the spawning HAS taken place is about 7 days later when the fry start popping out of Momma's mouth.

If your fishes possessed extended genital papillae beforehand, but the female no longer does, there are two possibilities:

[1] The spawning was a 'dry run', and the female didn't lay any eggs (which could happen with a young pair the first couple of times);

[2] The female has indeed spawned, and is now resisting the male's advances because she's brooding a buccal pouch full of eggs.

Chances are you'll find out in 7 days' time which of the above two events has taken place. If fry start popping out of the female's mouth, she's nursing fry, and that's why she's telling the male to go take a hike.

This, incidentally, is one very good reason why Mbuna are usually kept in haremic fashion, with one male and five or more females - the male has a choice of females to mate with, and so will leave the first mated female alone while he courts one of the others that happens also to be ready to mate. Just having two females is going to be problematic. because if the second female isn't ready to mate, she could be attacked, and the first female could also receive a fair amount of harassment whilst brooding her fry if the male doesn't have other females to divert him. That's why among keepers of the more 'hardcore' Mbunas such as lombardoi, the experienced hands try to obtain a nice large group of females, then add just one male. Apart from anything else, if the male is busy breeding with several females in rotation, he's less likely to turn nasty toward any other occupants of the aquarium (assuming it's large enough of course).

Oh, and of course, keeping lombardoi with other Mbuna requires careful matching of species. Not least because lombardoi is sexually reversed with respect to most other Mbuna as far as colour is concerned. Among those Mbuna that are blue, most exhibit blue male/yellow female colouration, while lombardoi is the other way round. So, mixing lombardoi with some other Mbuna can cause problems because the female lombardoi can resemble some males of other Mbuna species.

Go here and start tracking down various Mbuna species. Some of the pages on that site illustrate both male and female individuals for comparison. Genera of importance are Pseudotropheus, Metriaclima, Maylandia and Melanochromis.

Basically, if any fishes in those genera have blue males with vertical stripes like your lombardoi females, they will be at best problematic, and at worst lethally incompatible, with the lombardoi in the aquarium.

Welcome to the wonderful world of African Cichlids.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thanks a ton for the help.

†Aquapickle†

ive alawys found ,that if i give them privacy by turning off the light this helps them along well.

alright i might have to give that a try thanks guys!

†Aquapickle†

I always found with my Africa Cichlids that the females would have a mouthful of fry straight after a water change. Without fail all the females not even half an hour after I had finished. Sometimes they would start while I was refilling the tank.

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Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

WOW!

†Aquapickle†