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I found out that temperature also plays an important role with rams when my heater stopped working one night. When I found out about it in the morning the temperature fell by only 2c degrees (which is not good, but was still in their range). I plugged a new heater and gradually brought the temperature up. Still, both my rams took it very badly, stopped eating immediately, became lethargic and darker in colour. I really thought I was going to lose them, but a medicating helped and now, two weeks later, they're back to normal.

Kidsmom, as you only post nitrates and nitrites, I assume you are using some sort of strips to test your water. This is not good enough with rams as they are very sensitive to ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, and you need something more accurate than test strips, and an ammonia test kit too. I would suggest the aquarium pharmaceuticals master test kit as it costs like two and a half test kits (at least here in the UK) and you will also get a pH test kit.

In the meantime, do some water changes as your nitrate could be too high for those fish, as it is recommended to keep them with nitrate levels under 10ppm.

Also, look at your fish closely for any symptoms. If you see nothing, look at their colouration. The fish will become darker if infected with internal bacteria. If you are not sure what is their normal colouration, have a look at the photo booth, there's a thread there with rams pictures, and compare yours to the rams in the pictures. It should mostly show on the darker spots on the fish's body. If your ram is darker than those, then this is your problem and you need to medicate fast. I don't know where you live, so it's hard suggesting a proper medication. I medicated with JBL's Furanol by dissolving one pill in a container with a litre of tank water and placed the fish (with an airstone, important!) for 30 minutes, and then put them back in the tank and turned the lights off. The colours were still darker when I turned the lights on 2 hours later, but there was a huge difference in their behaviour. I am not sure where you live and I don't know if JBL products are available in the USA, in case that's where you live. If you do live in the USA, I'm sure that Cory_Di won't mind you sending her a private message asking for a recommended medication for internal bacteria available in the USA, she's practically a walking fish medications handbook.

Hope this helps you and your fish.

I agree with everyone's advice here. If you're a beginner, rams are beautiful, but you may want to look to something else. They're best handled by the more experienced keepers (and I wouldn't mesh myself with 'experienced' keepers, I'm always learning. I just lucked out with my apistos, I think)

Rams are touchy and you often need to acclimate them to your water conditions over a period of hours using a drip.

I tested the bag water of the last fish that I purchased from a LFS with a conductivity meter. The reading was over 1600 ms, my tap water is 260 ms and my tank water is 270 ms. Ms is microsiemens or the conductivity of water. The higher the conductivity, the greater the dissolved items in the water.

I set up a drip sytem that slowly brought the water conductivity down for the fish. The period of the drip was 10 hours. The fish were rams and no one was lost.

Regrettably, conductivity is high in many fish stores and I would assume the same to be true when mail ordering fish. The key is always to acclimate slowly...

Last edited by bob wesolowski at 05-Mar-2005 18:59

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

I'm very sorry that both of your Rams died. They are a bit delicate & maybe, too much stress made it fatal for them




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If your going to get Blue Rams again make sure you:

1)Acclimate from bag at least 2 hours
2)Water temp should be toward the high end (78 - 82f)
3)No aggressive fish in tank
4)Tank should be established at least 6 months.
5)Do 20% water change weekly (with aged or dechlorinated water)


My Scapes

My other ram died last night. I did a 20% water change yesterday afternoon, but before the water change the fish looked fine. I really liked those fish, well for the short time they were in my tank I'm afraid to get any more until I get my water together. Thanks for all of the information.

Smantzer (and everybody else too, of course),

When you buy rams, also ask where were they bred and avoid fish bred in the far east as they feed them with hormones to make them look more colourful in the shop. The colour effect of the hormones fades eventually and you are left with a fish that is more susceptible for disease. There are also fertility problems with fish treated with hormones so it's altogether best avoided.

This is not from personal experience as I've never had rams which were bred from in the far east, but there's a lot of information about it on the net.

If its starting to weaken at water changes, check your water dechlorinater. Make sure its the correct dose. If your city just added chloramine, you would need a chloramine and chlorine remover (amquel or seachem prime).

Keep the temperature in mind also.

tetratech, I've had my ram for a year, give or take a month. I've also kept other apistogramma for around that long. My nitrates are generally 20-30ppm. Never over 30, but it isn't like they're constantly at 0, either.

I think that if rams are dying so suddenly like that, it's probably the acclimatization technique. This, though, is provided that the water quality is good.

I've also, though, noticed lots of "chain" LFSes just have problems keeping rams and other apistos alive. Perhaps the stock isn't healthy, or maybe your water is dramatically different from the LFSes. It's worth asking what pH they keep their tanks at, and then knowing your own.

I brought two blue rams last night. This morning one seems to be doing fine but other is just lying on the side of the tank. What can I do??????

smantzer,

How long have you had your Rams? because I could tell you that I have pristine water which houses cardinals, rummynoses and otos that I can honestly say I haven't lost one in over a year, but I did lose a few rams.

Of couse with fish like rams you should acclimate them for at least 2 hours very slowly

The affect of poor water is usually a gradual process even if you rams look good for a few months even.





My Scapes

Could it have been ph shock? If your ph is very different from the water in the store where you bought them the shock can do them in.

It's common to have a big difference if the fish have come from far away. Either through the mail or if you traveled a long way and you use well water and they use city water.

Another way this can happen is if the fish store does not change water frequently enough and the ph in their tanks has crashed. Another is that your ph has crashed. I do water changes once a week, about 50%, this keeps the ph at or close to what comes out of the tap.

If there if a big difference in ph you must take a very long time acclimating the fish. Drip method works best for this. You start a siphon with an airhose and put an airvalve in the end. Adjust the valve so you get 10 or 12 drops a minute. Put the bag, with the fish, in a bucket under the drips and let it fill the bag, then the bucket. Sometimes it takes several hours so an airstone in the bucket is a good idea.

Mike

Well I did the water change and I think the other ram is dying too. I'm not sure but I think they had issues when I brought them home.

I don't know if it's the water quality, because my ram is very hardy, and has been forgiving of a lot of newbish mistakes.

Rams are very sensitive to acclimatization. When you bring them homne, what do you do? Like, do you float the bags in the water, or...?

The correct way to do it is to dump out most of their water from their bag, and gradually over 30 or so minutes to fill it up with water from the tank they're going to go into. Some people will argue it should be done longer, but I've always done 30 minutes with no problems.

Blue rams also need alot of water changes. Do you change your water once a week. With rams depending on how many fish you have in the tank you probably need to do 20% water changes every week.

My Scapes

Too late he died, hopefully the other one will be fine. My nitrate was 20, and nitrite was 0. Some I try to do a water change????

How established is the tank. Blue rams are very sensitive to water conditions?

My Scapes

It's probably due to stress. If your water is okay, Ammonia-0 Nitrite-O, you should probably do nothing, or perhaps a small water change. But do it carefuly so as not to stress the fish more.

If your tank is new and not yet cycled you may need to do a larger water change. Stresscoat or a similar product may help but don't overdo it.

Good luck, Mike