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Hello Everyone,
I am back after a lost rest maybe some of you remember me. So my question this time is... For a 30g tank what would be better for a full grow out and and breeding tank, Rams or Convicts. I don't mind if the fry get eaten but then again I dont care if they live either. I just want them to be able to exercise certain activities. Alright Thanks.

Chris

Choosing from those two I would take the rams.

Convicts are aquarium rabbits and you would soon find that the 30g is full because of so many off spring. You may not think that is a problem but it will be because many lfs's will not buy them from you and many hobbyists do not want them either.

Rams are more of a challenge in every way. They need excellent water conditions and are trickier to breed.

But it is up to you, which do you like better?

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Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

I am not really sure... I really like both but Rams are just so small and they would look funny in such a big tank. Also the Convicts are I dont know... Probably Rams. What do you guys think?

Chris

I'd go with the Rams too. I wouldn't worry about them 'looking funny' in that much space - in fact, you would be well advised to let them have that much space to themselves because then they'll be more likely to breed, and you'll have more options for growing the fry. One, the Rams will produce fewer fry (around 200 per spawn, while a well-conditioned adult pair of Convicts can produce a whopping 2,000 fry!), two, the fry will be less likely to start destroying each other once they start growing, three, the Rams will be a LOT more saleable if you can grow the fry to around an inch in length, and four, some dealers will offer a better price for local bred stock - in the case of Rams, which are a desirable fish, this will go quite some way toward offsetting the costs of your aquarium.

of course, if you want something different, I can recommend quite a few Cichlid species that will be a LOT less troublesome than Convicts, and will be a LOT more saleable because they're a lot more peaceful. Flag Cichlids, Laetacara curviceps, and the Dwarf Jewel Fish, Anomalochromis thomasi, are two fishes I keep recommending because they're peaceful enough to live in a standard community aquarium alongside small Tetras and the like, and possess many of the Cichlid virtues (beautiful colours, advanced social behaviour, model parental care of eggs and fry) without the vices (i.e., they won't destroy plants, dig through your substrate like excavators or start eating the smaller occupants). There are some other good Cichlids you can look out for if either Rams or Convicts don't appeal, but out of the two, I'd run with the Rams ahead of the Convicts.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

What kind of Rams sell the best for the most money, if I were to make a profit? Also Don't the fish (Convicts or Rams) eat their fry? Thanks.

Chris

Also how many pairs of breeding rams could I have in a 29g? Thanks.

Chris

*Cough*

Chris

Bump...

Chris

What kind of Rams sell the best for the most money, if I were to make a profit? Also Don't the fish (Convicts or Rams) eat their fry? Thanks.

I'd say german blues probably sell for the most. You shouldn't be looking to make profit off raising fish, you won't. You'll maybe recoup some expenses of raising and enjoying them though. Cichlids are usually pretty good parents and don't eat thier fry, but can eat thier young in certain situations.

Also how many pairs of breeding rams could I have in a 29g? Thanks.

One pair.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

You can have two pairs of breeding rams, and can have a school of tertra's in their as well. I personally like the bigger cichlids, although I do have a 29 with two breeding pairs of rams and tetras too, I would go with the convicts. The only thing about convicts is that they will breed out of control once they get going and there fry is pretty much worthless. Another nice option could be some firemouths, but the sexes are much harder to tell apart than convicts or maybe a breeding pair of Acara's. If you go with the Rams you can plant the tank, with the other cichlids it ususally doesen't work but some have had success with it.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

Oops, forgot all about this thread!

My personal preference would be to run with the Bolivian Rams, because they require less elevated temperatures. The problem with the assorted fishes known as German Rams (and a host of other names that don't really fit a fish that is actually native to Venezuela, which is why they're usually called Venezuelan Rams here in the UK), is that they're sauna lovers. They're native to watercourses in Venezuela that run through open grasslands known as the llanos, which are baked under equatorial sunshine, hence the liking for steamy hot aquaria - 78 degrees F should be the maintenance temperature, and for breeding, they can go as high as 86 degrees F. Bolivian Rams, on the other hand, will live at 74 derees F and breed at 80 - in fact, a well conditioned pair of Bolivian Rams may well breed at 78 degrees F if they're in the mood!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Well, I am only going to sell as a side thing. This isnt really for money, but hey, If i can get money off it why not? I do not really care for bolivian rams too much. Could I breed firemouths in a 29g?

Chris

Firemouths in a 29 ... hmm, may be possible, but the setup will be a fairly high maintenance one. You've got the problem of acquiring the usual clutch of 6 juveniles, then rehousing the surplus once your first pair forms. From that point on the only fishes that will be able to live in the 29 will be your Firemouth pair, and you'll need good filtration to keep on top of their messy feeding, along with more than scrupulous attention to water changes and gravel vacs. If you have a fair amount of prior experience at maintaining small setups, this will help, but I'd look for something else for your 29. Apistogramma nijsseni, the Panda Dwarf Cichlid, if you can find it, would be a better choice - a much smaller fish, easier to manage the nitrogen cycle in its aquarium because of this, and you have the additional advantage that males and females are conspicuously sexually dimorphic from an early age, so getting a male/female pair won't be too hard - you can buy 2 males and 2 females on sight. Here's an illustrated page featuring this fish.



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I agree with Cali that Apistos would probably be your best choice. Have a look on http://www.aquabid.com/ and look at some of their apistos. Apistodave has some great auctions, and not only that, they're cheap! He currently has one of my favorites, a pair of Apistogramma trifasiata, up for auction and the starting bid is only $11 So check it out and hopefully you'll find something you like.