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okay, mystery fish time.
what is the fish in these pics?
http://picasaweb.google.com/Sktchy/WhatIsThisFish
sorry about the awful pictures. hopefully they are good enough to tell.

proud father of a bunch of baby haps. http://picasaweb.google.com/Sktchy/BABIES

It appears to be Pseudotropheus zebra to me.

Jim

---

Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

I was afraid of that, so is it a male or a female?
hope the pictures are good enough to tell.

proud father of a bunch of baby haps. http://picasaweb.google.com/Sktchy/BABIES

Yep it is a kenyi, it looks to me like a female.

†Aquapickle†

okay, so one vote for zebra and one for kenyi...
anyone else?
it is always as pale as it looks in the pictures, except when it's stressed, then the bars become much darker.
it was sold to me as a Kenyi.
but it's bars are so thin, and it doesn't look like the female Kenyi's I have seen in pictures.
on the other hand the reticulated markings in the dorsal fin aren't really characteristic in Zebras.
so I'm at a loss...
actually looking around a little online as I wrote this I found some good pictures of Kenyi, the reticulated pattern is characteristic of Kenyi, so that seems more likely now.
still if someone could confirm aquapickle27's post I'd feel better calling it a Kenyi.

proud father of a bunch of baby haps. http://picasaweb.google.com/Sktchy/BABIES

Before turning to the identity of your fish, you need to know some facts about the taxonomy of Cichlids. Principally because the names of even long-established aquarium species are subject to change, which means that establishing the identity of your fish is likely to be confused somewhat by the fact that different authors may call your fish by different names!

Cichlid taxonomy was given a very large kick up the backside, as it were, by one Dr Humphrey Greenwood in 1977. The reason for this lay in the fact that before 1977, taxonomists had used dentition (structure and arrangement of teeth) as a classification tool. Greenwood discovered that this is not always reliable - some Cichlids exhibit a characteristic called 'environmental plasticity', which is a scientific term meaning that some of their anatomical features change in response to environmental effects, and this affects tooth structure and arrangement to a significant extent in quite a few Cichlids. The tooth structure that a Cichlid has as a newly hatched fry may differ substantially from that it possesses as an adult as a result, though there are also species in which this characteristic IS reliable as a classification tool, just to complicate the picture! So, Greenwood set the Cichlid world alight with his discovery and his 1977 paper, and consequently, the world of Cichlids has been replete with name changes (many due to people such as Sven Kullander and Dr Paul Loiselle, following in Greenwood's footsteps). This is of particular importance with African Cichlids, because these are the ones that Greenwood studied most intensively when arriving at his conclusions. Add to this that we are still discovering new species in the Rift Lakes even though the likes of Ad Konings and Ethelwynn Trewavas have spent 30-odd years collecting there, and the picture becomes quite complicated, as you can see.

Now, the two fishes that have been cited as possible candidates for your fish have complications of their own. The first one, Pseudotropheus zebra, is known to some scientists as Metriaclima zebra, though a consensus upon which Genus this fish belongs to (and indeed whether Metriaclima is itself a valid Genus!) has yet to materialise. The Cichlid Room]http://www.cichlidae.com/[/link] is one of the best places to visit to answer some of these questions, hosted as it is by Juan Miguel Artigas Azas, who is ably assisted by Ad Konings and Dr Paul Loiselle (with intermittent contributions by Sven Kullander) and the illustrated Cichlid catalogue there should provide a number of answers (along with the articles in the Articles section). As a specialist Cichlid site, it has few equals because of the massive professional contributions by leading figures in the scientific study of Cichlids, but be advised that some of the taxonomic assignments made there are not universally accepted, and be prepared to find Cichlids under more than one name as you browse various sites! From that site, I found [link=this page which illustrates a 'classic' wild-type Metriaclima zebra, but in the case of this fish, be advised that there are NUMEROUS colour morphs and population variants, some of which bear confusing resemblance to other species, and that precise determination of your fish, if it IS a Metriaclima zebra, may require some expert attention!

As to the idea of your fish being a 'Kenyi', well, the work 'Kenyi' is a trade name for Pseudotropheus lombardoi, which on this page has again been moved to the Genus Metriaclima. This fish is interesting because it exhibits colouration that is the reverse of the usual convention for Mbuna, so with this fish, blue individuals are female, and yellow ones are male (which in turn means that it requires special care when integration into a multi-species Mbuna aquarium is attempted). Indeed, the citation on that page I just linked that lists the original description, namely:

Burgess W. E.; 1977; "Studies on the family Cichlidae: 8. Pseudotropheus lombardoi, a new species of Lake Malawi Mbuna with reversed sexual coloration (Pisces: Cichlidae)"; Tropical Fish Hobbyist; v. 26, n. 2, pp. 63-67.

just happens to refer to one of my back numbers of TFH magazine in which the original paper describing the fish was published, so I know it well!

The presence of an egg spot on the anal fin of your fish (visible in this photo of yours) says to me at least that whatever species it is, it is a male individual, so that's one item out of the way. However, I would say that it is NOT Metriaclima zebra because males of that species tend to have multiple egg spots, and the fact that it isn't yellow rules out Metriaclima lombardoi because males of that species are bright yellow! This probably explains why your attempts to put a male lombardoi in with it (as mentioned in your video clip) have resulted in vicious internecine warfare - as I said above, integrating lombardoi with other Mbuna in a multi species setup requires particular care because of the reversed sexual colouration.

However, if your fish is a juvenile, it may acquire more egg spots with increasing age. If so, then Metriaclima zebra starts to look more likely as a final ID for your fish. You then have the fun of working out which population variant you have, which will be a LOT of fun if you don't have collection data on the fish!

Take my advice, and spend the extra money in future on Mbuna with full collection data and proper scientific name labelling in specialist dealers. It'll save you a LOT of headaches, especially given that there are some fishes which have lookalikes visually, but turn out to be radically different temperament wise. The classic example is Pseudotropheus minutus, which is a relatively mild mannered (by Mbuna standards anyway) species, but which bears a VERY close visual resemblance to Pseudotropheus elongatus, a fish which becomes an unholy terror in all but the most carefully designed setups because it is ferociously territorial, and differs from most Mbuna in that it forms Central American style pair bonds, with both male and female co-operating to exterminate would-be threats to their fry when they begin breeding, making it a nightmare acqusition for someone who wanted the much mellower minutus instead!

Another reason for going to a specialist is to avoid nasty surprises such as buying what you think is a male Melanochromis auratus (itself a pretty feisty fish) and ending up with the demon Melanochromis chipokae, whose lurid reputation as "Bin Laden With Fins" is VERY well deserved!

Good luck in the continued hunt for the identity of this fish, by the way.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

thanks for the incredibly informative post Cali.
but Cali, look at this picture on one of the sites you linked, it's of a female lambardoi!http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/picture.php?p=1405
it has an egg spot just like mine!
in fact it looks exactly the same!
so mine is probably a lambardoi, based on this evidence.
what I didn't mention in the video, was that the males I have gotten have all been relatively small, expecially when compared to a three and a half inch female and some tank residents of around 4.5". the dominant male in the tank is a hap. "zebra obliquedens" and he makes a routine of bullying two red empress. Thankfully my LFS recently got in some big males (3-3.5" ), so hopefully one of those will fare better. there are not any other pseudotropheus species in the tank, or for that matter, any species with a blue male. unless this one isn't a lambardoi. but it really looks like that picture. so thanks for providing the really good image of a female that helped out so much. and as always I appreciate your knowledgeable responses.

also, you mention that I should look for a source that uses scientific names and gives full collection data, and that sounds VERY good!(I bought two young peacocks as sciaenachromis ahli, and the definately aren't, but pretty much all young peacocks look the same) so my question is, Where?

proud father of a bunch of baby haps. http://picasaweb.google.com/Sktchy/BABIES

Well since you're on a different continetn I can't tell you which stores to hunt down, much as I'd like to be able to!

However, if you track down the website of the American Cichlid Association, chances are they'll have contact details you can submit a query to, and ask if there's a specialist Rift lake dealer within relatively easy reach of you.

Additionally, it might be worth sending a PM to Jason_R_S here on the board (provided he's happy to accept one of course!) as he's pretty knowledgeable in the Cichlid field - he deals with some of the people I've already mentioned on at least an intermittent basis and has access to a wealth of useful info.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

thanks again Cali!
I already know the ACA's website, I just hadn't thought to look until now.

proud father of a bunch of baby haps. http://picasaweb.google.com/Sktchy/BABIES

Sktchy,

If you live within an hour or two drive of Chicago, you have a great resource with the Greater Chicago Cichlid Association. I often take the 2.5 hour drive to visit a meeting or to cruise their bi-monthly swap meet.



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

it's about a 4 hour drive from here, but I'll definately keep that in mind, does anyone know of any online sources?

proud father of a bunch of baby haps. http://picasaweb.google.com/Sktchy/BABIES

an update, after confirming that it was in fact a female, by method of venting, it's fairly obvious that she is a Kenyi, since that's the only commonly available pseudotropheus that has a blue female.
Got a male, he's doing great, has taken over a cave and is driving out all comers. he also displays for her frquently. I'm going to get another female for him as soon as my LFS gets in some bigger ones. right now the only ones they have in stock are only 1.5"-2", which seems strange considering they have a bunch of 3"-3.5" males. oh well, they get in a new shipment tomorrow, so I'll have another female in there by saturday probably.

thanks for all the help! I appreciate everyone's input.

proud father of a bunch of baby haps. http://picasaweb.google.com/Sktchy/BABIES