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Tetra Fan,

Wild discus are most commonly found in schools of greater than 50 fish except during the breeding season when they become territorial. In general, you should have a minimum of five discus in a tank to avoid excess cichlid bullying behavior. Most discus hobbyists will recommend an odd number of discus in an aquarium.

I recently purchased five 2 inch bristlenose plecos and twenty 2.5 inch discus [body size] from a breeder in Chicago. My total bill was $258. I will be growing these out for a 125 gallon Amazon biotope tank. From this group I expect to cull 4 or 5 fish. These will be fish that do not attain the roundness or the size that I want in the fish.

If at all possible, I will sell or give these fish to other hobbyists, if not...

Discus do "prefer" their own kind. It is called breeding behavior. I currently have three spawns in two aquariums. The discus are preferring their own kind all over the place!

I currently have five 6 inch adults in a 36 gallon tank with five 5 inch adults in a 30 gallon tank. Each tank is planted with corys and bristlenose as the clean-up crews. The fish are fed bloodworms and black worms twice a day. Water changes are 50% every other day with 86F tap water.

The water is hard and the pH is above 7.4 but the tanks are clean and the water is fresh. Those tanks are above the standard for overcrowding but the heavy water changes allow me to maintain and to grow the fish. In addition, the fish respond with spawns, go figure...

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Tetra,

I would love to get into the "nature versus Nurture" discussion with you. I have always found that domestic animals quickly revert to wild traits. Does that mean we have suppressed their instinct by placing them in an artificial environment? I think it would be a great new thread somewhere.

I do think that people can get better prices on fish than their LFS and I think that they can get healthier fish. My deal on the discus and ANs was not exceptional. It came about because of the internet.

By frequenting fish specific forums, I saw an offer that I was able to utilize. I was going to be in Chicago and the breeder and I could make arrangements.

It's a little like buying a car, Tetra, not everyone has to pay the sticker price.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Not all schooling fish school closely, a lot of them prefer to school in a loose group.

And bob, not everyone can get cheap discus from breeders. Also, that is in the wild that Discus school in such large groups, keeping them in a home aquarium they will not mind being in a group of 3-5. Also, I saw an aquarium in a bookstore near the national aquarium in Baltimore, they had about 10-15 discus (estimation) and they had nothing to do with each other...not spawning or anything (but by the looks of the smaller ones they spawned at least once before)

The inch per gallon rule is a stupid rule and should not be used as even a guideline. That many fish in such a small aquarium would still produce a lot of waste and cause ammonia spikes. A better rule is how much waste does each fish produce (estimated). A big fish is going to produce a lot of waste, as well as a fish that eats a lot. A small fish with a small appetite will not produce much waste at all.

And I agree with Jaylene_Grasshopper, Nick, you give great information and your right, not EVERYTHING you say is right

the five inch rule only applies for schooling fish because they swim so close together and since were on the subject another forum (just so happens it belongs to the magazine i was reffering to) i belong to has a member who made a more accurate guide

http://www.aquariumfish.com/anforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=63189

Awww, come on. I'm wrong a lot of the time, on quite a few threads.

I just don't think I'm wrong here. Think about it. 5 inches of schooling fish per gallon? Would you put 20 rosy barbs in a 15 gallon tank? Of course not, because they are so active. All schooling fish need room to move around in, and five inches per gallon is just ridiculous. Even just one inch of fish per gallon is too much. You wouldn't be able to fit a fully grown pleco in a 29 gallon tank, just because it doesn't grow to 29 inches. I think that your magazine is mistaken.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Resle, sirbooks is never wrong! Don't ignore his advise, it is good!

IMO, you shouldn't stock your tank off of only(it's an ok guideline) X inch per gallon guideline, too inaccurate
Example(from resle's 5inch/gallon rule)
5inches/gallon
20 gallon
33 3" cories

20gallon x 5inches = 100 inches of fish

100 inches of fish/3" length of cories = 33 three inch cories

Another reason that the inch/gallon rule is inaccurate, is that a 10" oscar would not go well in a 10 gallon aquarium, but according to inch/gallon rule, it is OK

Chris, I would go with your other/revised idea


Last edited by me is already in use at 26-Oct-2004 23:33

I think you would be ok to start with 6 discus, and after a pair forms, you may want to just keep the 2. I think it would be better, or as Bob says you may want to keep 5 or all 6 of them. Discus are gorgeous fish, and sensitive to change and companions.
I would say NO to the clown loaches. In my honest opinion they get way too big for a 75g tank. Unless of course you plan on upgrading to an even bigger tank in a year or two.
There are other "larger" but not so large loaches that are very attractive and personable that you would easily be able to put in this tank. One that comes to mind is my favorite botia, the Queen Botia. They are friendly (mine wiggles in front of the glass like its giggling when I say hello to it). Heres a picture of my Queen Botia. They reach 4-6 inches and are wonderful fish, a great choice instead of clowns.
If you went for a pair only of discus, you could put in a BGK. If not, I would leave him out. He wont bother the discus though, if thats what you are concerned about.
Anyway heres a pic of my queen botia for ya to see:
Look at me Im an Upside Down Cat with stripes!


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sirbooks, i dont think that one of the leading magazines in America would have an atleast 4 page article on school fish when its not even true i remember specifically what the author had in his/her 20 aquarium 20 cardinals, 15 coolie loaches and 10 of some other fish so im not really going to beleive u(no offence)

75usg, 6 discus, 6 clown loaches, 1 bkg. does this sound good, may be a little overstocked and i do not know much about the bkg it just looks cool.

if i am over stocked i can drop the loaches for corries but i just like the larger size of the clowns.

also, if the bkg does not work i can switch him for a schoal of cardinals,

it is so hard to put a tank together in your head, i am always changing my mind.


chris

That isn't true. It can depend on the size of the fish, but mostly on the amount of waste the fish produces. Your article is most likely referring to tetras, but even then, it is wrong. That's like keeping 100 neon tetras in a 20 gallon tank. Nobody in their right mind would do that.
Discus grow to five inches or so, and I can't imagine five discus in even a 50 gallon tank! They are not schooling fish, anyways. Discus prefer the company of their own kind, but they certainly do not school.

Last edited by sirbooks at 26-Oct-2004 17:41

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

i read an article about scholling fish in aquarium fish magazine and they said if u have good filtration and good water a schooling fish would be grouped to around five inches of fish per gllon instead of one

I don't think Discus are schooling, but rather, enjoy company. This is what I would do in this situation.

4 Discus
8 Cory's (any species)
10-15 Cardinal Tetras
Pair of Blue Rams

But that's just what I would do...


....hmmm...would that be overstocked?...I'm starting to lose touch with the fishkeeping world


[edit] Bob, that many Discus would cost a lot, I don't think you would just want to cull Discus either at the prices they can reach even at 2 inches(around 20 us dollars a piece)...



Last edited by Tetra Fan at 26-Oct-2004 16:11

Discus are a schooling fish. The minimum number that you would like to have in your tank is five. Always keep the number of discus to an odd number to avoid aggression problems.

You did not day anything about the size of your discus or your loaches. A problem that you may have with that combination is the activity of the loaches bothering the discus. based on that concern, I would recommend discus and corydoras.

If your discus are small, you may want to increase the number of discus. That is, if you have six three inch discus, yopu may want to have a school of twelve or fifteen fish. The larger number of discus will allow you to cull those fish that
- do not grow well
- you tire of
- get sick

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

I'd go with just the discus - that way, you shouldn't have to worry about one being picked on incessantly, as you might with a smaller group.

-Molly
Visit shelldwellers.com!

its about 10 us gallons to a fully growen discus.

Yup, that's too many fish. I would drop three of the discus, or two discus and the BGK. The clown loaches make a nice touch for the bottom, so I would leave them. Discus need a lot of space per fish, so six of them wouldn't fit with the other fish.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

though discus only get 6" they need 10" for space so the discus and the bgk alnoe would be over stocked