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I think the argument above was that natural instinct embedded within the "angelfish psyche" tells them to attack and swallow neons.

I have had an Angel 'bout the size of a silver dollar with a school of 12 cardinals for about a year now without a problem, but when I try to increase the school of cardinals the angel does kill a few. I think there's a limit to how many schooling fish a bigger fish will put up with in a given space.


My Scapes

Hi i keep angels and neons together and i`ve never had any problems at all!

I have 2 angels and about 4 neons and they get on with eachother fine

i think the whole angel-neon thing is a bit of a myth but i suppose it depends on individual tempermants.

cheers

"If you didn't read the post, she "assumed" that the fish would be okay. Besides, I find it rather odd that it would take over four hours for the angel to notice the neon."
Well thats I would wonder too if I were in your spot Noodles- however, when I put the neons in, they darted for the bottom and stayed there for about 3-4 hours in a bushy plant. After this time, they started coming out, and for some reason, 1 single neon, a smaller one, moved to the water surface, and was swimming back and forth on the very surface of the water. This is what attracted my Angelfish. I suppose the neon was likely sick or injured to begin with, and any predatory fish would notice a sick or wounded individual who for some unknown reason is foraying to the surface of the water. Snap goodbye neon. I assumed the others would be OK because they were schooling with my glowlights, and as long as they didnt leave the school or the bottom of the tank, the Angel didnt seem to notice them. I fed them well and went to class. I guess in the 4 hours I was gone, either the school broke up, or more neons went foraying to the surface, I have no idea, but I fished em out as soon as I got home, and found only 7. (i say 7 now cuz I counted 7 yesterday in my 25g tank so I must have had 7 of 12 remaining). The remaining ones were the largest, healthiest neons of the group. They are all still with me, despite the scales that were missing on one - I assume a failed eating attempt by Sneaky Pete the Angelfish. They have grown back and the neons are very plump and healthy. I recently added more tiny glowlights and white cloud mountain minnows to replace a school of penguin fish I removed, and its been 2 weeks and my Angels show no interest in them. I suspect the blue and red of the neon is what appeals to the angels.
Also, I have seen pet stores drop feeder WCMM's into a tank with JD's, another with Piranha, and a third with Gars, and I watched for about 30 minutes, and not one fish showed interest in the feeders- and it was their first meal of the day. So I dont know, sometimes fish are interested in feeders, sometimes not. And BTW on a seperate note, it cheeses my pizza that my LFS feeds WCMM's to their predators, I personally like Clouds way too much to do this with.


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disaster.

i had a school of neons earlier this week, i thought they'd be big enough so that my new angel wouldn't eat them.. i was wrong.

the angel hasn't bothered my glo-lite tetras so i guess if you want tetras and angles to live peacefully try something other than neons

"Because he had a class to go to. Class is more important than a brainless, boring, $1.49 fish."

If you didn't read the post, she "assumed" that the fish would be okay. Besides, I find it rather odd that it would take over four hours for the angel to notice the neon. Whenever feeders are fed at work (even when introducing new foods), they are quickly gobbled up. Also, a life is a life, regardless of whether it is a "brainless, boring" (which is, by the way, your opinion) one dollar neon or a fifty dollar clown, but obviously you have no sense of morality/decency/etc in this respect, so I probably won't get this point through your head, dojo. Speaking of which, if you were 1.5" long and just happened to be dumped in the midst of the peruvian amazon, I doubt you'd live for more than an hour, so I don't really think you're in the position to call them brainless .

Because he had a class to go to. Class is more important than a brainless, boring, $1.49 fish.

So let me get this straight--you watch a neon get devoured alive, and you somehow think the others will be fine? That doesn't really make a lot of sense to me...not quite following your logic, etc. And furthermore, if you were going to create a large school of angel food, why would you do so with neons, whereas livebearer fry are far cheaper and are commonly offered as angel foods?

OK - so cats and dogs can sometimes get along.

But without knowing the personalities would you put them in a room together and watch to see what will happen?

Obviously it might be OK with angels and neons - but are you fish keeping or culling?

"why, if you saw the neon being eaten, would you keep the rest in the same tank for four more hours"
Because I was on my way out the door for class, I have a 45 minute drive, and the tank top takes a good 20 minutes to take off and put back on.
I assumed the angel would leave the rest alone, as they were all hiding really good in the plants, but I suppose the angel just stalked them until they went near the water surface. And honestly, at the time I was considering adding a substantial school and allow the angel to snack when she felt like it. After reading about the possibilities of transferring diseases, I decided against it though.


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A planted tank would help, as long as there are places that neons can go but the angels can't, because if your angel really wants to eat that neon it will, unless it can't reach it, or can't see it. The plants would have to be pretty dense in some places to do that.

I know my neons have all survived my two angels for nearly a year now. It is a planted tank, and they did grow up together, so it can be done.

oh yeah, even if your angel physically CAN'T eat your neon due to size, it might think it can. My angels go after my ottos sometimes (they go after the ottos, but not neons?). Though they couldn't eat a whole otto, they could put a serious dent in it, probably killing it. It's a good thing those ottos are quick.

Last edited by mattyboombatty at 06-Dec-2004 08:36

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

wait, wait, if it was heavely planted, would this solve the problem?

I love angels and neon so much!
I want to keep them together, but i need help on how to prevent them from hunting down my neons
My tank is heavily planted. Any ideas?

p.s. I keep angels with tiger barbs and they are fine...I don't know what people are talking about when they said tiger barb don't mix with Angels.

Cup, you are right about instinct having little to do with it. But that not as much because they are from brazil as they are far from wild. Very few P. scalare angels are wild in stores, and if they are, they are labeled as such.

Its getting harder and harder to find the wild black stripe on silver body coloration, which just show how far they are from the wild variation. Most people want golds, blacks, marbels, and kois.

The hell? An angel eating an entire rummynose? I highly doubt that the angel could even cram a 1.5" neon in it's mouth, much less a rummy. Maybe the rummy died first, then was eaten. I've never had a problem with rummies and angels.

Furthermore, instinct has little to do with it, as most of the current aquarium stock are not peruvian angels, but rather from the brazilian amazon (or so it is believed), therefore their wild ancestors probably never saw any neons. Ever. There might possibly be some problems with smaller fish, but I doubt that anyone here has actually had an angel eat a full grown large 1.5+" neon (why, if you saw the neon being eaten, would you keep the rest in the same tank for four more hours?). The bulk of the peruvian diet resides on inverts, anyways.

P.S.: Cardinals don't get much bigger than neons.

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 06-Dec-2004 00:28

Heres an answer that will sum it all up: MAYBE!!

Angels are cichlids, and as a lot of know, cichlids are known for their personality. putting larger neons in with small (quarter size) angels are the best way to go. However, here is one thing to keep in mind, by the time the angels are full grown and big enough to eat full grown neons, the neons will be reaching the ends of their lives.

Anyway, like I was saying: Angelfish are different from fish to fish, and even can change all of a sudden. For example, my female angelfish was very docile while the male angel was around and they stayed together all the time. Then when I had an ammonia problem which killed my male angel (), the female became VERY DIFFERENT. For about two months, she stayed in the back, hiding from everything. Now shes an angry, old widow who picks on my other fish.

What I'm trying to say. You angels may be fine with neons, they may not be. The only real way to find out is to take a risk.

~Racso~

Trojan_man

You can as many Neons as you want to with an Angle it will not mind a bit in fact it will thank you for the extra fresh food you are giving it.

Its your choice???

Keith

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I thought neons would be OK with my angel, my sister gave me 4 and I went out and got 8 more, to make 12 total on the same day.
Well, my angelfish took about 4-5 hours to notice, and one neon swam near the top, my angel came flying across the tank at super hyper speed and SNAP! The neon was lunch.
4 Hours later I took the neons out and put them in my 25g tank, I have 6 left. My Angel made quick work of 6 neons in 4 hours.
I personally wouldnt chance it. You are putting the natural prey of angels with angels. Perhaps you could try Cardinal Tetras or Glowlights. My 2 big Angels have never shown any interest in the Glowlight or White Cloud mountain Minnows I have, and I have a school of 13 glowlights and 11 white clouds. I reckon the blue/red combination of color in the neons is what attracts the angels. Cardinals have a different color pattern however, and get larger, so you may be safe with them. I would only get a few to start - say 6, and see what happens. If some disappear, try a fish with no blue on it like Glowlights.
They are very pretty fish as well!


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In other words you can go agenst good advice like i did and end up with a great tank. THen again tho you can go angenstist it with no so good result. Just depense on how risky you want to be with your fish.

Ya can't mess with instinct. Although some people have good luck with the others suggestions, i've seen angels and neons that have lived together for years.. and the neons end up missing with a fat happy angelfish in the tank...