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This Really interest me, friend FRANK
(I could have done a PM, but thought others could benefit from your knowledge and experience)

Please exlain, friend...In reply to another post, you said something like that.
Are you saying with my 2 Marineland Emperor 400s on each 55g tank, the 4 Bio-wheels, 8 fiber filters and timely water changes with my home filtered water, are all I need to keep the fish healthy(water wise)"?
(6 small Rams, 6 Serpae Tetra, 45 neons, 6 Glowlight Tera and cardinals, and a small bristlenose)

??

Not sure about Frank's take on it, but I don't know too many people that use carbon as a regular thing unless they have a particularly dodgy natural water source.

I suppose the question might be better phrased as "why do I need carbon?" That question is pretty easy for other filter media. you need course sponges for large particles, floss or fine sponge for small particles, some sort of biomedia for maximum colonisation in minimum filter real estate. Some of those things can double up and take of the roles of other things, but carbon is really a fairly specialised thing. What are you trying to remove and what other things could it be pulling out that you want to keep in the water?

Activated carbon is non-selective in what it pulls out of the water meaning, while it is actively adsorbing, it is taking your plant nutrients and your organic compounds, as well as tannins and water contaminants and whatever else. Sometimes that is worth it, other times it is pretty unnecessary, occasionally it can be problematic.

In my mind it is like zeolite and phosphate removers and things like that. They have a purpose and if you have a need for them either because of location, circumstance or desire, then go for it. If not, and you are just using it because the filter company has left a space labelled carbon, then it isn't necessary for a healthy balanced aquarium.

I use it for getting dye-based meds out of the water or if I have to do a water change after a heavy rainfall on the reservoir because that makes our local supply a bit iffy. Otherwise, I haven't used it for about 7 years. While I've had other water issues over the years, I think I can safely say that none would have been avoided or greatly lessened if I'd used carbon.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Callatya,
I am a beginning/intermediate at fish keeping.
I do not have anything in my water supply that I need filtered out. My house is aready filtered from the softwater system in it. Hard minerals are already nonexistent in water changes.

Forgive me, but since the power filters I use come with activated charcoal inserts, along with dual bio-wheels each, for the 2 filter I run on each tank....I just thought it was fish produced chemicals that the carbon removed. OR exess carbon dioxide release by plants at night:
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=554

But do the plants filter fish waste with excess carbon dioxide at night?, as I "supposed" charcoal did?
I've never used live plants(and special lighting, until very recently). I Also have an Non-planted 55g with the same filtering setup that is doing just fine.

Please educate me, Callatya.
I may remove the plants and special "Daylight" spectrum light for various reasons, mainly having to do with the carbon dioxide reason mentioned in that artical...and algea particles in the "Daylight tank".

i have not read franks original thread but i find my water quality suffers without a carbon sponge(my local water is so hard its cheaper to buy a new kettle than descale) as is the phosphate problems without a removal bag my phosphate levels are 10+ but with the levels are 1-2 but i find i always have a price to pay as the extra phosphate bag within my internal filter system just slows it down so with a subdued flow and added carbon i end up with a calcium build up so i think there must be a fine line between tanks ie the amount of fish stock to the amount of plants anyway that's my rough idea

cheers papasan.

FRANK's statement was a reply to my post about how charoal works. And Papasan, he knows that I have a house filtering system that is used for tank water too(maybe that was a reason for his statement, plus presently I have a few live plants in there too). I was ignorant and when someone said that charcoal only is effecitve for 2 weeks to a month,...I was asking about sources for BULK charcoal....believing I needed to replace mine Quick.

He replied:
"I guess what we are trying to say, and the underlying thread throughout the replies is actually that one does not NEED to use carbon (charcoal)in their filters. If you are trying to remove tannins from new driftwood, or, if you are trying to remove the last vestiges of medications from a tank after an outbreak,
Then, you should use carbon in the filter. But, if your tank is not visiting any of those causes, it is simply not
necessary. Keep in mind, also, that carbon will remove many of the nutrients that plants use. If you have a planted tank, and add fertilizers with carbon in the filter
much of what you add will not reach the plants, instead it
will "gunk up" the carbon.

You can get bulk carbon from any of the larger wholesale
suppliers on line. I have a 1.87L container of MarineLand
Carbon that I've had, sealed, for a decade, should I have
a problem in my tank that needed it. No, I don't have any inkling of what it cost me, it was too long ago."
-------------------------------------------------------
Fishwaste, is the only thing I was wanting to have the charcoal mitigate, but I guess with my Bio-Wheels and fiber filters....weekly water changes may be all that I need (and forget loading the carbon cartridges with activated charcoal.

Does that sound right?

Generally, you do not need to carbon in the filter system, as it just absorbs trace elements, meds and ferts. Carbon will reach its max. in absorbing these elelments quickly and start to leach it back into the tank. Most people doi not change there HOB carts but once a month, and it has been researched that the carbon will reach it fill in 10 to 14 days, if it a canister filter, I personally, only open mine up every 3 months. So the carbon is doing nothing but leaching back in what it took out 2 months ago. If you running a planted tank, than your ferts that you add are being absorbed the the carbon and not reaching the plants. Carbon does have it place in the aquaroium world, one it as stated will absorb metals and trace elements, also you can you is to remove meds from the water. It is also help make the water clearer.

I don't think Frank was saying you don't NEED to use carbon in your filter. I think he was saying it wasn't required, depending on what you have going on with your water. I tested this after years beleaving you needed it for the health of the fish, I have not seen anything that would support the constant use of carbon, other than that it costy money and can be messy.

Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams

Cool,
Then I won't go out and get it in BULK to refill the charcoal inserts that came with the filters(I guess they are for using just "when needed" to remove meds., etc.)and save the money and hassle.

I don't add fert. to my tank....I let the fish do it. There are far more fish than live plants (most are "plastic"in the tank, along with extra power filters working.

Thanks Everyone!

Hi,
Gosh, I'm sorry I was away for a bit and with no Internet
access, I was not able to respond before this.

In direct answer to your question, Yes, I am saying that
you do not NEED to use charcoal in your filters. Quite
frankly, the amount of charcoal in most of those
filter inserts is very small and does relatively little,
if any, as far as the whole tank is concerned.

Activated charcoal or carbon is used to remove heavy metals
and large complex molecules such as copper, uria, and some
molecules that are components of medications,from
circulation. When the carbon is replaced the
trapped "stuff" is removed from circulation and the tank.
While it will help in chemical filtering for a week
or two, it soon adsorbes as much as it can, and from
that point on becomes simply another form of mechanical
filtration by trapping "large" chunks of waste that
is drawn into the filter.

Gross fish waste, excess food, and dying plant
material should be removed during water changes and
gravel vacuuming. There is no filter made that will remove
those things in the quantities that could exist in a tank.
Incidental fish waste, and excess foods snagged by
the filter's intake can be removed from the tank, but
not from the system. It remains in the filter until it
is removed by cleaning. The filters sort of act as
a holding chamber in which bacteria is given a
chance to attack it and change it to less harmful organic
compounds.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

OK, Thanks FRANK and the others that responded before he returned.

My filters come with relatively sizable empty, reusable charcoal cartridges that can be inserted into the slots used by fiber filters (which also contain a small amount of charcoal which can not be opened, just washed). SO, before you guys helped me with that, I Expected that those refillable chambers were to be used with "fresh charcoal" periodically, as a matter of general course. not for "special" elements which happened to get into the water.

As you know, FRANK, my house water is soft and those type minerals/metals are not being used anywhere in my house, especially there in my 2 tanks.

I am relieved,(I have only changed the carbon in those cartridges once every 4 months) and have removed my posted request for sources of BULK charcoal due to your experienced, kind help.

My fish are "important" to me and I want to keep them happy...and healthy.
I'm pretty sensitive about the one tank that has my Rams and a good number of Neons and Cardinals only in it. I sent my girlfriend to the fish store to get 10 neons(2 weeks ago) and she came back with 10 of the tiniest fry I've ever seen sold in Any store. I lost about 4 of them(which I guess is not uncommon)and was concerned about the "babies" and my water. Now the remaining ones are eating tiny bits of flake food pretty well and I'm pleased. Especially with what you have told me...everyone.

Thank You!