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5 Neons
5 Rasboras
2 Platties
1 medium angel
1 Peppered cory cat
2 Ammano Shrimp

So far I still read zero ammonia and zero nitrites since my cycle completed a couple weeks ago. I have an 18 gallon with an overly capable(up to 50 gallon) bio wheel and plan on getting a 50 gallon tank to transplant a few of my bigger fish in a month or two. Am I A.crazy B.A little over the top or C. just within for a while with this much? (Angel aside)

The transplan will definately include the Angel and proly the cory so I can provide him a school.

I'd say it's fine as long as you're sure you're that larger tank soon.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

Yup, move the Angel to the 50G, and get a few more. They look much better in a group of 4. For the cory, try to get the same species with your existing one. I've made the mistake of mixing different species. They don't really form a school.

Recommendations:

[1] Move the Angel to the 50 and buy 3 more;

[2] Move the Pepperd Cory to the 50 and buy 7 more;

[3] Move the Platies to the 50, especially if they're a male and female pair;

[4] Increase the number of Neons and Rasboras in the 18 to 8 each;

[5] Buy a group of 8 Corydoras habrosus or Corydoras panda to replace the relocated Peppered Corys in the 18. Make sure you get 8 of one species, don't try 4 of each, because the smaller Cory species are much more in need of companions of their own kind than the bigger ones.

So your final stocking in the 18 should read:

8 Neons
8 Rasboras
8 Corydoras habrosus or Corydoras panda

In your 50, you will have:

4 Angels
8 Peppered Corys
2 Platies

with space in the 50 for some other fish (say, for example, 10 Zebra Danios).

Alternatively, you could move the Rasboras to the 50, increase their numbers to 12 (which they will love you for), and increase the number of Neons in the 18 gallon setup to 16 (which again they will love you for).

Believe me, when you have shoaling fishes, decent sized shoals (12 and upwards) ALWAYS look better. The fishes are happier, their colours are stronger, and they present a wonderful spectacle in large numbers. If you don't believe me, hunt down any public aquarium that has, for example, 200 Cardinals in one aquarium. That will blow your socks off.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I'm a little worried about overcrowding too. I have a well established 46 gallon bow front with Bio-Wheel. There is a large hollow castle and several larger silk plants.

1 Bala Shark
1 Pearl Gourami
1 Boesemani Rainbow
1 Pleco
2 Spotted Cories
2 Tiger Barbs
2 Green Barbs
3 Zebra Danios
1 Gold long-finned Danio
3 Bamboo Shrimp
2 Blue Rams

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I'm a little worried about overcrowding too. I have a well established 46 gallon bow front with Bio-Wheel. There is a large hollow castle and several larger silk plants.

1 Bala Shark
1 Pearl Gourami
1 Boesemani Rainbow
1 Pleco
2 Spotted Cories
2 Tiger Barbs
2 Green Barbs
3 Zebra Danios
1 Gold long-finned Danio
3 Bamboo Shrimp
2 Blue Rams

Just took a look at this latest stocking. Oh, wow, LOTS to do here ...

Bala Sharks are shoaling fishes. They are also highly active, and will reach 12 inches whe fully grown. To keep Bala Sharks in the manner in which they need to be kept (i.e., a decent sized group) you're looking at a 250 gallon tank for long term maintenance. Rehouse the Bala Shark ASAP unless you are planning to set up a 250 and give it at least 3 other Bala Sharks to keep it company.

Likewise, Besemani Rainbows are shoaling fishes. In a 46 you would be pushing it having a shoal of those alongside all the other fishes even after you rehoused the Bala Shark. I'd find a new home for that too.

Now, your "Pleco" ... I don't suppose you have an idea WHICH species, by any chance? Wouldn't surprise me if you didn't, not with about 70 species to choose from ... However, the trouble is, the most frequently sold "Pleco" in the trade is the Common Plec, which is a seriously troublesome fish because it grows BIG. As in 2 feet in length. You're looking at a 300 gallon for that fellow. Rehouse poste haste!

Having dealt with rehousing the troublesome larger fishes, next question is your Corys. First, you need to find out what species of "Spotted Cory" you have, which won't be that easy because there are 42 different species of "Spotted Cory" to my knowledge, and probably another 20 or so listed as C-numbers on Planet Catfish. Once you've found out what species you have, get another 6. Corys like to be in groups. And, having a decent clutch of bottom feeders in your aquarium will help keep a host of other problems at bay. Alongside the Corys, get 6 Otocinclus as replacements for the Pleco. These fishes stay small (under 2 inches) and are industrious algae eaters. If you have any algae in that aquarium, they will demolish it in pretty short order.

Next, your Barbs and Danios. I assume that your "Green Barbs" are the moss green colour form of the Tiger Barb. Boy, you are picking and mixing your shoaling fishes like jelly beans, aren't you?

First step here is to decide if you want to keep the Tiger Barbs. If you do, rehouse the long finned Gold Danio because Tiger Barbs are fin nippers. This also means you will have problems with the Pearl Gourami later on. So those two fishes will need rehousing too if you keep the Tiger Barbs. I'd stick to one colour form of the Tiger Barb, and having chosen which colour form you like the most, exchange the others for more of the colour form you want. Bring the numbers up to 8.

Likewise, bring your Zebra Danio shoal up to 8. Shoaling fishes should be in groups of a minimum of 6, and where space allows, you should have bigger shoals than that. 8 Tiger Barbs and 8 Zebra Danios is the way to go here.

You can keep the Blue Rams. They should be tough enough to look after themselves alongside the Tiger Barbs.

Next, I would find out FAST what on earth your "Bamboo Shrimp" are. If they're long arm shrimp belonging to the Genus Macrobrachium, you could be in for trouble. Some of those shrimps grow to be 8 inches long and will regard your fishes as lunch when older. Macrobrachium rosenbergii is a human food shrimp, which gives you an idea how big some of these can grow. Have the identity of the "Bamboo Shrimp" checked by someone with the requisite specialist knowledge, find out how big they grow, and if they are a species that will become 8 inch juggernauts when older, rehouse them. Unless you want your fishes to end up as lunch of course ... take a look at this website, click on the blue button labelled "Shrimp" at the top, and have fun searching through about 40-odd shrimp species in an attempt to find yours, then having done so, realise why you need someone with specialist knowledge to do that for you if you're not a veteran aquarist.

So, recommended final stocking in your 46 is:

8 Tiger Barbs (all one colour scheme)
8 Zebra Danios
8 Corys
6 Otocinclus
2 Blue Rams

Your next exercise, after you've digested this little lot, is to go and read a couple of my editorial pieces. They won't be hard to find ( ). Read this piece]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/30348.1.htm?14#[/link], then take a look at my infamous "An Aquarium Is Not A TV" piece which can be found [link=here. Those two piece should prove suitably informative about the fishkeeping game.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Bamboo shrimp is likely an atyopsis species. Large filter feeders. If it has little fans on it's legs and likes to sit in current then that's definitely it. Totally harmless to all fish and most anything else. They will survive against some larger fish like blue gouramis or slightly more agressive fish like blue rams compared to smaller species of shrimp. Probably would not survive the attentions of a whole school of tiger barbs or anything larger or more agressive than the rams or moderately large gouramis but usually they do not hold the attention of most fish. Large agressive cichlids are usually all that bothers them. They do not survive as well long term without a piece of driftwood to sit on preferably in front of a current. They are designed to blend into wood and get stressed out if there is no wood to hide on. Their preference is a nice chunk of wood right in the middle of the strongest current and a couple plants around them.

Identifying spotted cories can prove very difficult and even if you find the exact species you may not find them in stores again. Tried it. Your best just checking local stores for a cory that's as close to the ones you have as possible and making a good sized shoal using those. If you got them recently you can return to the store you bought them from and see if they have more or can get in more. Oftentimes though even if they order spotted cories again from the exact same distributor it still may not be the same species.

Thanks so much for the advice, I was a little worried. The Pleco, Bosemani, Gourami, and Bala were all rescues from my kids, so won't be problem to let them go.

The Rams are new and I've been wanting them for awhile, finally got them. Can I have more rams or maybe dwarf gouramis with them? I had a couple of Dwarf Powder Blues but the opalescent gourami pestered them to death.

My cories seem to be Peppered cories and I'd love to have more or them.

The shrimp, from the site you suggested, seem to be Bamboo Fan shrimp. It says they're harmless to tankmates and get to be about 8cm.

The Otocinclus, I'm not familiar with, but yes the algae is building up and if they're as good as profile says would be great.

Thanks again for your suggestions, am looking forward to reading your editorial pieces.

If you run with the stocking I've suggested above, then I'd stick to just the one pair of Rams for now, just in case you happen to have a genuine pair. If you have two males, then you will have the fun and games of finding someone with surplus females to arrange a swap with.

As for gouramis, I'd go with Honey Gouramis instead of Dwarf Gouramis. Honey Gouramis are somewhat more peaceful, the males are CERTAINLY less rough on the females during courtship and mating, and if you go with 1 male and 2 females, again you could see the patter of tiny fins.

I would also consider, if you're looking for something different, a fish called Betta imbellis. This is known as the Peaceful Betta, because - get this - the males don't fight to the death. At worst, you'll see some flaring of fins if you have two males together by accident. Again, go with 1 male and 2 females. If you can find this fish, it's worth tracking down - it's almost as spectacular in wild colouration as some domestically bred Betta splendens (at least in the male) and has a number of other redeeming features. Not least being that it's pretty hardy.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Ok Calilasseia, I was overcrowded and lost one of my rams before I was able to remove the Gourami, Bala, Bosemani and Pleco. I will be removing the Pleco today and hopefully adding another ram. The other one seems to be doing great so far.

I did about a 30% water change and removed the G, B, and B. My water perameters now are:
Ammonia - NH3 0.0 ppm
Nitrite - NO2 0.0 ppm
pH 8.0
Temperature 82°F.

I am looking to take up the additions you suggested:
8 Tiger Barbs (all one colour scheme)
8 Zebra Danios
8 Corys
6 Otocinclus
2 Blue Rams

Per your second suggestion of the Honey Gouramis, should I probably cut back on the dither fish, or will adding 3 HGs be ok? How fast should I add other fish, I assume, not all at once.

Build up your stocking in stages. That way you give your biofilter time to adjust.

I would go for building up the Cory numbers first. Because having a decent number of bottom feeders before you move on to the other fishes will prevent a host of problems looming later on - see this thread for more information on why.

Once the Corys are in place and settled, next thing to attend to is the Tiger Barbs. Once that shoal is in place, you have a fair amount of freedom of manouevre for the rest of the stocking.

Best thing to do next in my view would be to add some Otocinclus, taking care to select good specimens and acclimatise them slowly - these fishes sometimes recieve a fair amount of 'rough handling' at the wholesalers, and so before adding them, I would prepare the aquarium to receive them by cultivating some algae on a bunch of small rocks in a jar on a windowsill before buying the Otocinclus. That way, they'll have algae to munch on when they arrive.

Add some of these rocks to the aquarium before you buy your Otocinclus, so that they have a meal waiting for them. Upon their arrival, acclimatise them using the drip method for at least an hour, with the aquarium lights off, and leave the lights off for a further hour or so once they're in the aquarium. Give them time to settle in and find your algae covered rocks. Once you see them munching happily on the rocks, you know that you stand a good chance of them bedding in nicely. It would be a good idea to continue cultivating algae rocks for the Otocinclus once they're in there, while you gradually introduce them to other foods such as algae wafers.

Once the Corys, the Tiger Barbs and the Otocinclus are settled, then it's time to build up the Danio shoal. They'll stand waiting for a few weeks while you sort out other issues, but once you build up their numbers, watch them come alive.

Then, it's time to start checking out your Ram. Since you have Papiliochromis ramirezi, the way to differentiate the genders is simple - the anterior hard dorsal fin rays become significantly extended in male fishes as they mature (the technical term for these extended rays is 'lappets'). If you have a male, try and find a female to pair with it, and vice versa. Two males in the same aquarium are likely to be troublesome. A male/female pair, on the other hand, may bicker initially while they work out a social hierarchy, but then the male will suddenly wake up to the fact that he has a possible girlfriend in there, and his attentions will become somewhat different - here's hoping!

To make sure that the fur doesn't fly if you end up with spawning Rams, check out your furnishings at this point. With the Corys present, you'll need a decent number of cave hangouts for them, and some cave provision for the Rams as well in case they spawn. Bear in mind that Rams will, if given a choice, prefer to spawn in a closed cave rather than an open one (hence the reason flowerpots are popular among Cichlid breeders!) so provide at least one closed cave with one entrance for the Rams to pick as their territory (preferably two or three, space allowing), and provide open caves with more than one entrance for the Corys to bustle about in. This should, hopefully, minimise the likelihood of the Rams turning nasty toward the Corys during spawning - it'll make the Rams' task of defending eggs easier (they only have one entrance to guard) and the Corys can be kept occupied by putting catfish pellets near their caves so that they're too busy munching on those to notice the caviar. At least, that's a strategy to adopt in the hope that the Rams are sensible in their choice of cave for spawning. You can't guarantee this of course, but at least you will have tried.

I would leave the addition of the closed caves, incidentally, until you pair up your Rams. Let the Corys get used to hanging out in some open ended caves of their own, then put in the closed ones for the Rams once you obtain your second Ram. Hopefully, the Rams will take note of this and take over one of them as their own before the Corys get chance to go sniffing around.

Once this is in place, you can go shopping for Honey Gouramis.

Leave at least a 3 week interval between fish purchasing trips each time. That way, you have time to observe the newcomers, and watch for signs that something is wrong (e.g., a White Spot outbreak). Space your stocking like this, and you will 'divide and conquer' any looming management issues, making them easier to deal with.

Oh, and finally, if you can obtain some floating plants for the Gouramis when they arrive, this will give them something to build a bubble nest under. So, you could end up with quite a few different fishes spawning in there.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

FYI I think I had too many school fish. I got one of those inexpensive 5 gallon hex tanks and put my 5 neons in it next to my bed. I used the 18's tank water and some of the gravel. Should cycle quick. I also bumped the rasboras to 7 from 5 in the 18. They seem much happier now. I think my 18 may be close to the brink but am pretty happy with the current stock. I also took the opportunity to order a couple RENA air pumps because I hear they are very quiet. I hope they are becuse my generic air pumps are very loud.

7 Rasboras (would love to go to 8 or 9 but proly shouldn't)
1 Angel
2 Platties
2 Ammano shrimp (Awesome)
1 Peppered Cory ( Sorry buddy, I know your a school fish but will have to be alone for a while)

Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0