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Ok, assuming my Bio-Spira is a dud, should I add NIC (I bought some a while ago)?

Actually, I added both the recommend dosage of Bio-Spira and half the dosage of NIC on my first day. Hm...

You are indeed correct Jake about bio-spira. When using bio-spira I don't believe you need to add any ammonia at all.

Still no change in nitrite or nitrate but the ammonia level is stablizing at ~1ppm.

Still don't know why the nitrite hasn't decreased

7/17 -[font color="#008000"]Ammonia ~0ppm[/font], [font color="#C00000"]Nitrite 4[/font], [font color="#BF791F"]Nitrate 15[/font], [font color="#000080"]Dosed 4.6mL pure ammonia[/font]


[span class="edited"][Edited by sly 2004-07-17 10:27][/span]

[span class="edited"][Edited by sly 2004-07-17 11:20][/span]

Like I said, could be some dud bio-spira. It has a short shelf life and must be refrigerated at all times. If it was shipped to the lfs or to you and was not refrigerated, or left out of refridgeration for a day or two, etc, could be that much of the bacteria has died off. Once adding the biospira, did you add ammonia immediately after, or have ammonia in the water before, or did you add the biospira and not add ammonia for awhile? Most people add the biospira at the same time they are introducing the fish, or immediately before or immediately after. They are live and will die without a food source rather quickly. Enough of yours may have died to the point that your tank will start out mini-cycling rather than cycled.

My steps:

1. added bio-spira
2. added ammonia immeddiately dosage to 5ppm
3. continued to add ammonia daily until nitrite appeared
4. cut the ammonia dosage in half

Also, last night I added some more Bio-Spira. You can refer to my first post and see my readings from day one.

[span class="edited"][Edited by sly 2004-07-17 10:49][/span]

OMG, still no change in nitrite/nitrate!! ]

7/18 -[font color="#008000"]Ammonia ~0ppm[/font], [font color="#C00000"]Nitrite 4[/font], [font color="#BF791F"]Nitrate 15[/font], [font color="#000080"]Dosed 4.6mL pure ammonia[/font]

Yet another day with absolutely no change...

I'm beginning to wonder if there's something wrong with my cycle.

:%)
7/19 -[font color="#008000"]Ammonia ~0ppm[/font], [font color="#C00000"]Nitrite 4[/font], [font color="#BF791F"]Nitrate 15[/font], [font color="#000080"]Dosed 4.6mL pure ammonia[/font]

[span class="edited"][Edited by sly 2004-07-19 09:27][/span]

I agree with jake here, it seems that your Bio-Spira is no good. I've been doing a regular fish cycle with NIC and seem to have similar readings.
[hr width='90%']
Date [font color="#008000"]Amonia[/font] [font color="#C00000"]Nitrite[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]Nitrate[/font]
[hr width='90%']
Sly's readings
8-Jul [font color="#008000"]5[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]0[/font]
9-Jul [font color="#008000"]4[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]0[/font]
10-Jul [font color="#008000"]3[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]0[/font]
11-Jul [font color="#008000"]4[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]0[/font]
12-Jul [font color="#008000"]5[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0.3[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]7.5[/font]
13-Jul [font color="#008000"]5[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0.3[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]10[/font]
14-Jul [font color="#008000"]3[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0.5[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]20[/font]
15-Jul [font color="#008000"]2[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0.5[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]15[/font]
16-Jul [font color="#008000"]1[/font] [font color="#C00000"]3[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]15[/font]
17-Jul [font color="#008000"]0[/font] [font color="#C00000"]4[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]15[/font]
18-Jul [font color="#008000"]0[/font][font color="#C00000"]4[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]15[/font]
[hr width='90%']
ReikoX's readings
4-Jul [font color="#008000"]0.3[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]0[/font]
5-Jul [font color="#008000"]0.3[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]0[/font]
6-Jul [font color="#008000"]0.3[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0.3[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]0[/font]
7-Jul [font color="#008000"]0.5[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0.5[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]5[/font]
8-Jul [font color="#008000"]0.5[/font] [font color="#C00000"]0.5[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]5[/font]
9-Jul [font color="#008000"]0.5[/font] [font color="#C00000"]5[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]5[/font]
10-Jul [font color="#008000"]0.3[/font] [font color="#C00000"]5[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]5[/font]
11-Jul [font color="#008000"]0[/font] [font color="#C00000"]5[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]10[/font]
13-Jul [font color="#008000"]0[/font] [font color="#C00000"]2[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]5[/font]
14-Jul [font color="#008000"]0[/font] [font color="#C00000"]2[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]5[/font]
15-Jul [font color="#008000"]0[/font] [font color="#C00000"]2[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]10[/font]
16-Jul [font color="#008000"]0[/font] [font color="#C00000"]2[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]10[/font]
17-Jul [font color="#008000"]0[/font] [font color="#C00000"]2[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]10[/font]
18-Jul [font color="#008000"]0[/font] [font color="#C00000"]2[/font] [font color="#BF791F"]10[/font]
[hr width='90%']
Now with the help from my good friend Excel, I made some charts of these numbers.


Comparing the two charts we can see that there are several main differences. First let's look at the amonia. Clearly since you are fishless cycling, you didn't have to wait a week for your amonia to spike and you could simulate a much higher bio load. Next we should take a look at the nitrites. Again these two look very similar. The main difference between the two is after the first spike. You chart shows a secondary spike, while my chart levels out. Due to the precision of water testing this is probably just a bad data point. Finally to compare the nitrates. These two charts look somewhat different. Your chart had a mystery bump, which was probably just adding one to many drops of one of the chemicals in the test, (I can't seem to count to 10 too well myself). Other than that it looks normal (a steady incline). Now you will notice on my chart a sudden drop. This was due to a water change.

Next consider the differences between our tanks. I'm using fish, you are not. I have live plants, I assume you do not. I'm using NIC you are using Bio-Spira. So these differences can explain for most of the differences in the charts. However both charts look very similar to any chart of the cycling process.

So what do all of these comparisons tell us? First let's consider cost. Amonia is far cheaper than fish. I lost 6 fish (platies, I know not the best to cycle with) durring my clcle. However Bio-Spira is about twice as much as NIC. Next let's consider time, you saved a whole week by adding amonia rather than waiting for the fish to generate it for you. [/font][/font]

Well at least my plants came today

That will give me a few more days until I snap again ]

It might take a day or two for the bacteria to stop floating around and fully colonize the filter media, but once you add the bio-spira ( the true and actual bacteria), that's it. Cycling is getting the bacteria to grow, and if you're adding them ( that's what bio-spira is), that's cycled. Every time I've ever used it or read about other people using it, they've put the biospira in, the fish in immediately after, and that was it. You might get some fluctuations for a day or three, but nothing lethal and it should balance out quickly. That's why bio-spira has gotten so much good press and also why they can't keep it in stock.

Sly,

Just a question, if you are adding ammonia and you are getting a 0ppm reading on ammonia what is happening to the ammonia you are adding? Could it be that your ammonia tester is up the shoot , not the bio spira?
From my meagre knowledge you should be getting an ammonia reading unless something is eating the ammonia and turning it into nitrite very quickly. The natural progression of this thought then says you have good bacteria in your tank.
Stop adding ammonia and see whether the nitrite reading goes down.

WTH

I just test pure ammonia and got the same reading of ~0ppm? Something is wrong?

Help meeeeeeeeee!

UPdate: Actually it turned whitish green. But I'm going to get it tested at my LFS anyways.

[span class="edited"][Edited by sly 2004-07-21 09:18][/span]

When I first started my fishless cycle I found that my ammonia test kit also read 0 even with alot of ammonia added to the tank, which seemed fishy. The next day I went out and got a new kit and it worked great. The kits were both Aquarium Pharmaceuticals but the bad one only used one bottle or reagent while the good kit used 2 bottles. I then remembered reading somewhere about the difference between the two kits and that one would give false readings. I don't remember exactly what the difference is though...maybe somebody else does.

I contacted Aquarium Pharm.. several weeks ago regarding use by dates on their products.

Here is the thread link
http://www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/thread.asp?id=39545
explaining how to find your use by date on the testers.
good luck.

And yes my new kit has two ammonia testers, apparently the chemicals reacted with each other and had a very short life, hence the separation of the chemicals into two bottles. The down side is they have removed the KH tester from the kit.

Thanks for the help guys.

I went out and got my water tested at a very good LFS, the best fish store I've been to. The readings he gave me was the same as mine. However, he said my nitrite was through the roof which isn't surprising, the ammonia conversion has to go somewhere. So my only solution is to wait and let the bacteria do its thing. I'm getting very impatient though.. ]

PS. According to your thread about the expiration date, all of my Aqua. Pharm. bottles have 0404, which is good for awhile longer

[span class="edited"][Edited by sly 2004-07-22 22:06][/span]

If your only problem is Nitrate, then your cycled change 25% of the water daily until the Nitrate falls into the safe zone on your tester. You should be able to add a few fish. Once you do check the water and watch for Amonia or Nitrite. Once you add fish you may go through whats known as a mini cycle.

Refresher, Amonia,Nitrite, then Nitrate. Nitrate is typically removed by water changes.

After my first take I have never had to cycle ever again(or at least that was tangable)

I have one take that has two filters at all time, so when I get a new tank, I plop the used filter on the new tank and the New filter. Along with some gravel from the old tank, then add the fish slowly. Never see a cycle

TTFN

Fish_Fan

Actually, I was talking about Nitrite. For that, I can't do anything except play the waiting game

This is taking so long! Sheesh! ]:| :%)

My ammonia is going down but my nitrite seems to be increasing (it should decrease)? Also, my nitrate level doesn't seem to be increasing as it should!

Should I add more ammonia as it is now at 1ppm?

7/16 -[font color="#008000"]Ammonia 1ppm[/font], [font color="#C00000"]Nitrite 1.0[/font], [font color="#BF791F"]Nitrate 15[/font], [font color="#000080"]Dosed 0mL pure ammonia[/font]

[span class="edited"][Edited by sly 2004-07-16 08:04][/span]

Any tank regardless of it size take about six to seven weeks on average to complete its't cycle ... that is how long it take to develop the beneficial bacteria in your aquarium.
During this time, do a 25% to 30% weekly water change and meaure your pH, Nitrite, Nitrate, Ammonia (NH3) and hardness levels.

[font color="#C00000"]I may have added too much ammonia...[/font]
This is a confusing statement to me. Why are you adding ammonia? Idea of cycling the tank is bring your ammonia (NH3)level to zero.

SLY, I did the same thing with my 75 gallon tank. Adding ammonia to the tank acts like the fish waste, and starts the cycle (instead of fish producing the ammonia, you produce it) I think that is why they call it a fishless cycle. lol. I messed up when I did it and added way to much, I started to add teaspoons instead of drops (i caught myself after it was to late), I just let it work itself out.
(this is good if you need to added alot of fish at once.) But if you add to much it will still work out.
hope this helps