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Hello, I am trying to figure out what I need to lower some levels in my water and keep them stable. My pH, Total Hardness & Alkalinity levels are very high. This is due to my tap as it is very high coming out of it. The reasons for wanting this is I would like to have my fish closer to the confortable water levels and I have read this will also help bring there colors out and make it alittle less stressful for them. I currently only have a 20g tank. I use a HOB system and a RUGF system with 2 Penguin 660R units. Below are my water levels.

Nitrate - 20
Nitrite - 0
Totoal Hardness - 300
Alkalinity - 300
pH - 8.4
Ammonia - 0 - .25
Temp - 76-78d F

The Ammonia, Hardness, Alkinity and pH levels are the same as above coming out of the tap. I live in the country and use well water. I do use Jungle ACE when adding water and during water changes. The levels are pretty stable but I also have plants and know they also need lower levels. Does anyone know of some low costs ideas that will help lower the above levels and keep them stable, not go down for a few days then back up. I'm trying to get my levels to the below area.

Total Hardness - 100
Alkalinity - 175
pH - 7

Also to note I don't use carbon in my filter unless I add meds. I also do water changes every Sunday with between 25-50% water change. I clean the gravel, every week but there is not alot to clean as the RUGF seems to help alot. I rinse the HOB Filter every 2 weeks and the other (Biological) filter once a month, I then rinse one prefilter (From the Penguin 660R's) one week then the other prefilter the next week.

Hope I left enough info for someone to give me some advice. Thanks in advance.

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It's got nothing to do with water levels mate.
Add peat.

Peat won't affect water like that. You'll just get black water and might make 8.0ph. Tried it. About the only way to affect well water like that is to dilute it with straight h20. You can get RO water refills for $.25 a gallon at alot of grocery stores or distilled water by the gallon for a bit more. Either one is fine so long as you are mixing it with some of the wellwater and not using it straight. Your likely to only make 7.6-7.8 ph though. RO, distilled, or bottled water only makes a ph around 6.8-7.0 and once you add even a small amount of 8.4ph water it will buffer it back up. To make 7.0 you can use peat with the diluted water and make much better progress or you can give up on the wellwater completely and just use bottled water which has minerals and buffers added back in. There are also plenty of products designed to add minerals back into RO water.

In most cases the fish will adjust to a different ph just fine. I would just try to dilute it down to 7.8-8.0 since majority of the fish you will commonly find in stores will live completely healthy in that ph. You usually stress them out more attempting to keep a ph low and stable than just leaving it a bit high.

for the Amonia I would add a liquid bacteria to try and keep things stable in that aspect.

As for your PH I wouldn't mess with it. It just adds extra stress to your fish.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi,
Two things...
First, I'm surprised at the ammonia level in the tank,
not about the ammonia level from the well. According
to theory, the bacteria within the tank should take that
trace of ammonia and convert it to nitrite and then
the bacteria should convert the nitirte to nitrate.
Unless you are taking the readings immediately after
refilling the tank after a water change, I'm surprised
at that reading. Is your test kit up to date and
the reagents fresh? Or, the ammonia reading you are
seeing is the not same form of ammonia that we discuss
when talking about fish waste and cycling tanks.

Depending upon your water source, you can do one of two
things...
Install an RO (Reverse Osmosis) System and use the output
of the system to dilute your well water. Once you get
the knack of it, it is simple to do. Change out, say
5G from your 29G tank, and mix "x" nr of gallons of
RO water with "y" gallons of well water = the
tank readings that you desire. The first couple of times
will be strictly experimental, but after a couple of
changes you will arrive at some predetermined amounts.
Say 3 gallons of RO water and 2 of well water,
for instance.

A second option is to purchase 1 or 2 gallon containers
of distilled water and mix it with the well water on the
same idea as above.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hello and thanks for the replies. Ok I know what Distilled water is not really sure about RO and what do you mean by bottled water. Do you mean like to 20oz bottles of say Aquafina as bottled water.

So from what I am reading distilled or bottle water along with peat would be my best bet to go. Will using this combo lower the levels and keep them stable? What is peat, were do I find it & how do I use it? How often would I need to change the peat? Will doing my normal weekly water changes be all I need to do if I use Distilled or bottle water? I have a 20g tank and do 25-50% water changes, would I just use the distilled/bottled water for this and then say once a month use a mix with tap water? I'm sorry for so many questions I am rather new and just want to keep my fish healthy and happy. Also would using a filter on the tap help any? Thanks again for the help.

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Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

---

Hi
If you hold your cursor over the RO it should tell you
what "RO" means, and in my note to you, I said (Reverse
Osmosis).
This is a link to show you what the equipment looks like:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/NavResults.cfm?N=2004+113773
It is a way of using reverse osmosis to force water
through a membrane that blocks out the molecules that
cause hard water.

NO, we don't mean "bottled water" such as Aquafina.
In any grocery store you can find gallon and two gallon
jugs of either spring water, or distilled water. Use the
distilled water.

As was mentioned in an earlier post, the Peat won't do
much, if any, good for your particular problem.
If you place peat moss in the tank it can lower the pH
but there can be complications and problems that a new-
commer would find difficult to handle.

Diluting the "soup" (well water) with distilled or RO
water would be the better way. The added benifit of the
RO water is that you would also use it for everyday
drinking water as well as using it for your tank.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thank you again. I will then just use the Distilled/bottle water and a 50% tap mix. I can't afford a RO Unit right now and I only have a 20g tank. When I get a larger tank though I will most likely purchase one. I will not use the peat then for now. Thanks again for the help.

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Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

---

Bottled water in the gallon containers is usually RO water that has the minerals added back in so it's buffered. You can use this water by itself except in a planted tank you will need to add fertilizers. Distilled or straight RO water has no buffers or minerals and will cause lots of issues if used by themselves. RO water is created by filtering through chemical and various stages of mechanical filtration including a very very fine membrane that removes up to 99.99% of contaminants, minerals, and anything else found in the water. The result is about as pure as the distilled but there is also alot of waste water that flows away from the membrane down the drain.

If using lots of RO water you can get your own RO system but it has to either be connected to the plumbing or screwed onto a faucet and it does best if it has constant pressure behind it instead of being turned off when not in use. With your own RO system you can do water changes whenever you want without having to plan ahead. Some downsides of having your own RO system are that it does require some maintenance usually filter changes every 6months and it runs very very slowly. It can take me a couple hours to get 5g of water out of mine. Bigger ones run faster but cost more and will give off more waste water if amount of water usage is a concern. Overall you usually save money by maintaining your own system over buying it from stores and especially if you can only find distilled at stores instead of the cheap RO refill water.

Peat is sold in granules or regular fibers at most fish stores or you can get some gardening peat that is much cheaper but you have to be very careful that nothing is added to the garden peat. Peat is somewhat tricky and will discolor your water unless you run constant chemical filtration. It can also potentially lower the ph down to 5.0 or if you don't change it often let the ph slowly climb back up. Unless planing to breed your better off just diluting the water to near the values you want and leaving it there. It will require alot less experimenting and testing water values than using peat.

Hello, I went to my local Wal-Mart today because I thought I saw a water refill station. It was there and is done by culligan. It says that it uses the RO system. It is about $1.38 a gallon. I guess I will go this way for the time being. Now if I mix the RO water 50/50 with tap water will that be a problem. I do water changes weekly so I figure I change out about 5-10g a week. Using the RO can get pretty spendy though. I looked at RO systems but I don't really have the $130 for one at the moment.

So the general idea is I will use 50/50 RO and Tap. This should lower my levels and keep them stable as long as I do normal water changes and cleanings weekly, correct?

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Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

---

Hi,
By changing out, say 5 gallons, from your tank and then
replacing it with a mixture you should eventually get
the water down where you want it. I would not do it
all at once as you would probably stress the fish. I'd
do it over a series of weeks with the intent of reaching
your goal. We have no way to say that if you use
2.5G of RO and 2.5 of well water, that you would have
the desired pH/GH/KH. The mixing is something you will
have to experiment with to come up with the right
mixture. Just don't change the entire tank at once,
do it slowly.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hello, yes this is the way I had planned on doing it. I wonder though, as I have a 20g and will only be using 2.5g of RO water will it start to drop as I do my weekly water changes or will the tap water levels override the RO water levels and just shoot them back up?

I was also reading and was wondering if I added a DIY CO2 system if that may help lower some of the levels. I read that CO2 will help lower pH levels. I have 2 sword plants in my tank so I know they could use the CO2 that was injected. I would have no problem keeping up the CO2 mixture as I would check/replace when I do my water changes every week. Let me know what you might think about this. Thanks

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Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

---

Hi,
You are correct in that 2.5 gallons in a 20G tank would
probably not make much, if any, difference. The figures
were for illustrative purposes only. Just don't make
a large difference. To be honest, I'm a conservative
person when it comes to what you are doing and I'd not
change the pH more than one point per week or even better
per two weeks. Give the fish and their metabolisms time
to adjust and settle in before changing the pH again.
Stable pH is probably THE most important factor in
successful fish keeping.

Actually, if your fish are thriving in the water you
currently keep them in, then there is not much sense
in what you want to do...Other than some self satisfaction
in that you have lowered the values to what the books
recommend. In all but the most sensitive fish, few need
to have the water "adjusted." What are the local fish
stores doing? Take your cue from them... If they are
modifying their water, then do it too, if not, then
leave it alone.

As far as DIY CO2 is concerned, with only two plants
in the tank, I would not do it. Unless, you want to
see how it is done and try it yourself. Swords are
not all that fast a growing plant, and it would take
a while to see the changes.. With DIY CO2, you would
have to stop any surface movement so the excess does
not escape into the atmosphere.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

The added benifit of the
RO water is that you would also use it for everyday
drinking water as well as using it for your tank.

Just don't drink too much RO water, it can be very very bad for your long term health. Your body needs those trace minerals that are in the water, like calcium and magnesium. If you drink the pure RO water, that water will actually start taking those minerals out of your body, depriving it of much needed minerals. Calcium, for instance, is not just important for your bones, but calcium is needed for every cell wall to maintain its function and to make sure that the signals that tell your muscles to work are transmitted correctly. You have to remeber that every system tends toward equilibrium, and that that pure water will want to have something dissolved in it, whether that 'something' if from the ground or your body, that water will not care.

Hi, I had hinkley springs water delivered in 5 gallon bottles every two weeks and would often use say half to all of a bottle in a water change, just to make sure. I started when our local water source was putting out a boil order for fecal coliform, but since then we've moved and the local water here is quite good.

Thanks for the above advice. I am letting it all soak in right now and hope that using the RO 50/50 mix will work. Thanks again

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Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

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