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I added 2 GBR's yesterday to my cycled 29gal yesterday. Today I realized my tank is too open for them so I added half a flowerpot positioned on a rock so it's like a likkle hut. My rams seem to be afraid of it, and I heard that rams are really sensitive to nitrate and hardness so I added TankSoft and did 2 10-15% w/c's, one yesterday and one today. How long will it be before the rams venture into the hut, and what is a good way to keep the hardness down? One last thing: do gravel vacs stir up the gunk in the gravel or remove it? I've only had my tank set up for a month now and I'm looking for a gravel vac that works like a siphon and has a short hose. Wish me luck with the rams!

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I like Led Zeppelin.

You can buy RO or DI water if you would like to bring the hardness down. Or if you like you can add a water softner pillow to your filter. Water changes won't really matter if you add hard water. They will just keep the water hard. You should test your tap and see how hard it is. Gravel vacs suck out mulm and junk from the tank but they also stir it up. As long as you keep on maintance they will do more of the sucking and less of the disturbing. I think it may be a little while before the rams trust the pot. You can try adding a few surface fish to draw the rams out if they are hidding. Try adding a small school of tetras. Say add 4 for now and then up to 8 over time. You could try a lot of things from splashing tetras to red eyed tetras. Also I would suggest plastic or real plants, and lots of them.

OK thanks. By the way, I saw a bottled water on my parent's dresser and it said purified by RO or distillation. I mentioned that it was probably soft and before I could say anything else, my dad gave me a look that said no. I'm gonna work on more plants, and yesterday at the LFS I discovered something amazing: My LFS has GloFish! They were out of stock right then though.I love those likkle guys and I might buy a school over time, even though they're 7.99 usd. I'll buy 4 at first and then 2 and then 2. Right now I have 1 male platy and 2 females(one of which is very pregnant), 3 cories, and the rams. What is my inch count right now?

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I like Led Zeppelin.

Your LFS is ripping you off they have a suggested retail price of $5 for glofish.
Inch per gallon is a bad rule to follow it is extremely innacurate. (ex. oscars could fit in a 20 gallon under the inch per gallon rule)

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

As for the hardness, as stated above it'd be in your best interest to find out how hard and what the pH of the water you're adding is first. Going by that, you can go to your local grocery store and pick up either distilled or r/o water by the gallon. This is cheap, and a lot of the stores let you refill for a fraction of the cost of the original, using their own machines.

Then, you play chemist and start mixing. Mix some of your tap water with the distilled water you picked up, stir it and test. Keep adjusting mixtures until you get to what you want. Then, start doing partial water changes with it until you SLOWLY get to the pH/hardness that's best for the fish. Going slow is key here, fish aren't meant to change parameters quickly. Also, depending on the readings you get with your tap water you may not want to mess with it at all. If it's just a little off, than it'll be fine for general fishkeeping. Fish can tolerate parameters outside of their "ideal" if they're kept constant. If the parameters are fluctuating all the time, that's where you run into trouble.

It would be good to find out the exact number of your water hardness. My water is pretty hard (don't know the actual number right now because I'm at work), but my GBR is fine. She has beautiful colors and hasn't given me any problems.
Finding out if it is just a little off will save you lots of trouble, IMO.

*Kristin*

OK, I'll look into that. Also, I have 4 serpae tetras, a DG, and an oto in my 12gal, would it be ok to put those in there over the course of like a week and add 4 more serpaes? I feel really guilty about having them in there for some reason and my 29gal needs a good school of tetras. I originally thought about just moving the DG to the 29 because he's not getting any food past the serpaes, but I wasn't sure. Should I move just the DG, the DG and the serpaes and keep the oto to clean the tank and use the tank as an HT, or not move anything? I love the serpaes but they're just too feisty at feeding time.

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I like Led Zeppelin.

If you leave just the oto, then get it some company, they like to be in schools, they hate to be alone, and you will need to be able to move them from the HT when you need to use it, and have a quick way to get meds out after you have used it before they go back in. Some people keep a sponge filter running in the main tank and transfer it over to the HT to get it going just before they put the fish in, myself I do not have a QT or an HT as I can't bear to see an empty tank! It's a weakness that may eventually grow into an advanced case of MTS, which has no cure. Thank Goodness!/:'

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

True about the empty tank! What I was thinking is that the otos can get rid of all the algae in there and keep the tank cycled enough for a sick fish. Also, there are 5 plants in there, so the nitrate might actually go down but the tank will stay cycled. I might be wrong on this, I'll wait for a remotely intelligent person to come along. I think I'll get 2 more otos and move the DG first, then 2 tetras, then 2 more the next day and then I'll add 2 otos to the HT and get the serpaes while at the LFS.

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I like Led Zeppelin.

Enter remotely intelligent person:

The tank won't stay cycled with just the plants in there, the bacteria need a source of ammonia to stay alive. If they go more than a couple of hours without ammonia then they die and become toxic to fish. That's why the sponge filter would stay in a running tank with fish in it or you would keep some fish in the tank between needing it. And the bacteria also need oxygen in the form of water movement, thus a filter of some sort must be constantly running, it can't be turned off for any length of time, an hour is cutting it close.

You need a lot more plants to actually bring the nitrates down by any reasonable amount so you would still need to do water changes.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

If you plan on adding anymore fish to a tank, it might be better to use the soon to be empty one as a QT tank. Plants are ok in a HT but if you had to use a medicine that is bad for plants it may kill them. If you don't have to medicate your fish that often, you may want to use it as a QT or just put some smaller tetras in with the ottos.

Hospital tanks are better with no plants...that way you can use any meds you need to, without worrying about the plants.
Just a thought. Its your choice though.

The ottos will do fine with just 2 or 3 of them. I had 2 of them in a 10g for months and they were fine. I had 1 in my 55g for a while also and it was fine. Now all 3 of them are together. Good luck!

*Kristin*

I think you misunderstood. I was planning on keeping the otos in the 12 gallon to clean up the algae caused by my negligence. They should have enough waste to keep the tank cycled for the one sick fish I would be treating, right? And I don't plan on unplugging the filter, either. Oh and by the way, I've seen sponge filter diagrams but don't understand them. Do you just run the airline tubing into the middle and turn it on? That would just mean that bubbles flow out and I don't see that as being a very effective filter.

EDIT: This post is directed toward luv. I don't think you understood that the tank would stay cycled, but I think I'm gonna go with GirlieGirl's advice and just make it a fun likkle tank.

ALSO: Could I put the DG in teh big one and have an opaline gourami? They are very good-looking to me and I would think they would make good centerpiece fish.

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I like Led Zeppelin.

Ok I see.

You could just leave the DG in the 12 gallon. Stock with:

1 DG
2-3 ottos
6 neons/cardinals

That wouldn't be overstocked. Just do regular water changes and you would be good.

Then you could have an opaline gourami in your 29g.

If I can ever find one, I want to put one in my 29g.

I don't know about mixing gouramis. I know 2 DG's will sometimes fight...not sure about 2 different kinds.

I think the Opaline will take up alot of the top space.

*Kristin*

"They should have enough waste to keep the tank cycled for the one sick fish I would be treating, right?"

Make sure to remove the ottos before putting in a sick fish. Also, i wouldnt recommend using ottos in a HT. HTs should only have sick fish in it. Meds can kill plants and dead plants can ruin you water quality, which can be trouble for an already sick fish.

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

So girliegirl, what should I do with the serpaes? I don't think I want to move them to the 29gallon because they are way too aggressive at feeding time, or mine are anyway. My DG barely gets any food past them. Maybe I'll move the DG over and get a school of some sort of characin for the 29. Do you think the serpaes are so aggressive during feeding because there's only 4 of them?

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I like Led Zeppelin.

You could try getting a few more Serpaes. I know with aggressive fish like tiger barbs, the more you have, the less aggressive they are. They focus more on each other, than other fish.
You could keep them in the 12 gallon, with the ottos. That way they wouldn't keep any other fish from eating.
Get atleast 2 more...maybe 4. I am not sure if that is overstocked or not, but it should work.

Move the DG over to the 29g. I wouldn't get an opaline if you move the DG over.

I see now that you want to move the DG because he isn't getting enough food, so the best thing is to leave the Serpaes where they are, add a couple more, and get another type of tetra or rasbora for your 29g.

The 29g could be your peaceful tank. /:'

*Kristin*

Yeah, I was trying to stay away from mischevious fish. I still can't help but love the serpaes though, they are just feisty enough for me to love them but not enough for me to get concerned. I might go for the GloFish, if not then I don't know what to get. I want some with long fins, but I can't seem to find any at the LFS, except for the occasional hi-fin serpae, and that just gets nipped away. I'll move the DG tomorrow then.

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I like Led Zeppelin.

My response was more geared towards leaving the tank running with no fish in it, it wouldn't stay cycled then. Sorry if I seemed to misunderstand. I wouldn't know much about HT or QT tanks as I don't think one would stay that way for long here.
It sounds like a nice tank that you are planning, I like the serpaes too, my brother has them in his 55g, he was told they were cherry barbs when he bought them from PetsMart.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Whatever you call them, serpae, jewel, callistus, they all act the same way. Oh, and it was partly my bad on the miscommunication. Oh well, I'm not hurt, you're not hurt, and (thank goodness) none of the fish are hurt.

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I like Led Zeppelin.