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i would like to replace gravel in my aquarium because i would like to start planting it and would like something more natural looking. the tank has been running for three years and the gravel is colored flourescent pink, blue and green. if i am going to plant it and most of the gravel will be covered by growing plants then is it really worth going through all the trouble.

kj fishy-finn <*)))><
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on AquariumPlants.com it says under like Vallisnerias that there is 10 plants per order. what does that mean??? there is 10 little plants bunched together that come as one.

kj fishy-finn <*)))><
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Hi kj fishy-finn,

First to your gravel question:

There are, as you identified yourself, two options:

-Leave it alone
-Change it

If you change it then you would most likely have to strip down the tank first, and you may go through a cycle again (mini), but you end up with the substrate you like.

If you don't change it then little work has to be done. The downside here, and I don't have a tank that is set up for this long, may be that you will undergo the Old-Tank-Syndrome soon anyway. Maybe you should read up on that topic.

About the Vals: This means that you have to buy 10, they don't sell only one. I am sure they are not huge when you get them, but they are not bunched. They will most likely be in one (or two) bags as individual plants. EDIT: Don't order 10 though, as each order contains 10 plants.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

what is old tank syndrome??? could you give me a brief idea and the basic point to it. when does it usually happen???

kj fishy-finn <*)))><
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kj fishy-finn,

I don't know when it usually happens, I would assume it also depends on your maintenance over the duration since the tank was set up initially.

What it is: Basically the collection of "gunk" in the tank over time, first unnoticed, that eventually will lead to major problems. I googled the web with the key words "Old Tank Sydrome" and found these:

First Link
Second Link (scroll down on this page to see this topic)

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

so basically Old Tank Syndrome is when a tank gets neglected and not cleaned forever to put it simply.

from reading the article it sounds like i am doing everything right. i clean my tank at the least maybe every 1-2 weeks with a 50% water change and check pH, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia every week before i clean it.

kj fishy-finn <*)))><
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Unless I have missed some thing what size tank is it and what fish are in the tank. Also filtration and airation what do you have.

If it is just a substrate replacement it is no big deal just a bit of preperation and a few hrs work

You will require at least 3ins of a natural 1-3mm substrate washed and rewashed to remove any rubish that is in the substrate.

A good size plastic container/s to store all the water and keep the fish in. During this time you "must" keep the filter and air going as well as the heater.

Remove all the substrate and clean the tank well.
Slowly replace the substrate and any rocks and driftwood as you go along. I would prefer to plant the plants when there is only a few ins of water in the tank
When adding the water pour it over something other wise it will stirr up the substrate to much.

When you have taken out most of the water from your storage containers add the fish at this time add some stress coat eg MelaFix. Add remaining water then a top up with new water if required.

I would also add some cycle as per instructions and at every water change to keep the filter healthy.

Dont forget to add the heater/s and air stone as you go along.

Finally keep an eye out for snails as there could have been snail eggs in the substrate

I hope this helps.

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Of course, there is another strategy you could adopt. This one will take some time and organisation, but if you want to replace your substrate, this will let you do it without a total strip down.

Get hold of some netting material that you can use as a divider, and cut into appropriate sized pieces. So if your tank is 18 inches wide, you need strips that are 18 inches by, say, 6 inches. Use these to divide your substrate into several regions.

Now, replace one region at a time with the substrate desired.

If you divide your substrate into 5 regions of equal size, then replacing one region at a time will result in you still having 80% of your filter capacity, until the bacteria have colonised the new substrate. And, with 80% of the remaining gravel already colonised, it won't take too long for the new 20% being added to become colonised either. Test water during this changeover and wait until the first region you've changed is fully colonised. Then move on to the next, and so on, using the netting to make sure that each region stays nicely separated from each other, so that when you remove one batch of old substrate, you don't get old substrate mixed in with the new.

Eventually, you'll have a changed over tank, but with any mini-cycles greatly reduced or possibly eliminated altogether (depending upon your fish stock levels). Then you can start planting your new substrate with live plants.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

...with any mini-cycles greatly reduced or possibly eliminated altogether (depending upon your fish stock levels).

what do you mean by depending upon your fish stock levels???

i have a 20 gallon tank that is 24in long by 17 in tall and 12 in wide. there is 30 pounds of gravel which is 2in deep. i have 2 angelfish(in process of getting rid of them), 2 bandit corydoras, 6 harlequin rasboras and 1 clown plecostomus. the tank has been running for 3 years now. i have a bio-wheel filter and a heater.

Old tank syndrome had been mentioned earlier and i was asking if i my tank could get it. from some articles it said that it basically happens from when the tank is neglected and not cleaned forever. i shouldnt get it if i do a 50% water change every 1-2 weeks and check pH etc???

also i may change gravel if my parents let me because my gravel is a bit larger than 1-3mm and i will probably regret not doing it eventually. it bothers me now that i didnt do natural gravel from the beginning, but what beginner wouldnt want fluorescent pink, green and blue gravel.

also what kind of lights are best for a first time doing plants??? would this light fixture fit on top of my tank that is 24in long??? - http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441780765&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302030061&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023693&CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673271901&bmUID=1142026735015&itemNo=25&Nao=24&In=Fish&N=2030061&Ne=2

kj fishy-finn <*)))><
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Let's deal with this one stage at a time.

If your aquarium is lightly stocked, then transitioning your substrate this way should not involve any mini-cycling at all. If your stocking is heavy, however, then removing 20% o the substrate could result in the remaining 80% of the substrate being overloaded by the fish wastes from the existing fishes. If you remove the two Angel Fishes from that stocking list, this will help a fair bit, though the best thing you could do during the transitioning period is to temporarily house the Clown Plec elsewhere, as that one fish on its own will be contributing the largest single amount of filter loading on a per-fish basis. With the Clown Plec rehoused, the transitioning will be MUCH more likely to run to completion without any cycling, and when completed, the Clown Plec could, if desired, be returned to the transitioned aquarium.

Since you're using a bio-wheel as part of your filtration set up, a second bio-wheel during transitioning might be a good idea, as a supplemental biological filter to help ease the load. With that in place, you will have even less chance of a mini-cycle taking place.

Water changes alone need not necessarily keep "old tank syndrome" at bay. However, what WILL keep it at bay is combining your water changes with gravel vacs. If your weekly water changes (which I notice are commendably large!) are accompanied by gravel vacs, then you should NEVER experience "old tank syndrome", which arises because of the accumulation of ever-increasing quantities of decaying mulm. With a Clown Plec in the aquarium, regular gravel vacs will be vital to make sure your aquarium does not fall prey to "old tank syndrome" because Plecs of many species are notorious for defecating on an industrial scale!

As for light fixtures for a 24" aquarium, you shouldn't have problems finding one. Here in the UK, aquarium fitments of this kind are made to standard sizes to match the aquaria concerned. I would be MOST surprised if the same did not apply Stateside!

In my 24" aquarium, the hood has space for an 18" long T8 tube that is driven by a standard fluorescent light controller - the ratings here in the UK are 240 volts, 15 watts. Since US mains is 120 volts, your wattage ratings may be different. However, here in the UK, flourescent controllers are made to standard wattage ratings with tubes to match. In my aquarium, a 15 watt Aqua-Glo provides sufficient light for my underwater rainforest, and if I needed any more, then fitting a second tube wouldn't be a problem. I've grown Amazon Swords under that lighting for 11 years, and had them reproduce too, so unless you're thinking of going for high light intensity species such as Cabomba in your planting setup in future, I wouldn't worry unduly about your proposed lighting system being insufficient for the task - if I can grow Amazon Swords and veritable forests of Java Moss/Java Ferns in my aquarium, you shouldn't have too many problems with plants in yours. Especially not with a Clown Plec supplying the fertiliser in large quantities!





Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Here is a fairly large question: How big of a jungle do you want?

How much do you want to put into it($$)?
Do you want simple maintenance or something that takes a littel more work?

If you want to go simple then you are limited to plants but you are going to spend way less money and have way less worries.

Look into plants like:
Java Fern
Java Moss
Anubias
Val
Crypts

Maybe add a layer of good substrate first and then the cheap stuff on top of that. This will give you more options later.


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

my light is a fluorescent light that is three years old. it is 18 inches long and 15 watts. i thought about going with 2 watts per gallon so i would have a bit of more choice. currently i have about .75 per gallon. it sounds about the same as yours, Calilasseia. i would probably at least have to replace it.

what is the best fluorescent light bulb to buy for growing plants??? i have read a little on the subject and know you can combine a "pinkish light" with a normal light to help plants but make it nice looking to view. or i could look at the light house in the link above to see if it would work and house 2 lights.

and i thought i would just add that i do vacuum the gravel like you said with the clown pleco.

what if i were to do the gravel change all in one sweep. would it still be easier to rehouse the pleco so that the load on the tank while the gravel settles in isnt so much??? i dont have another tank to put him in so i would have to have a friend watch him for a while. i also may get rid of him because he dirties the tank and doesnt do much cleaning of algae really.

i would like an easily maintainable amount of plants at first since i am new to it and then would like to expand a bit.

that is about all i can think of for now.

kj fishy-finn <*)))><
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kj fishy-finn,

Let me focus on the light, although we get off the original topic , I hope Cali can forgive us for that

I think that you probably need two entities: a new glass top and a light.

Glass top: if your tank is made by the company All-Glass then you should not have a problem fitting their glass top on your tank. The reason why I think you need a new one is because they have tops that are differently dimensioned (wider middle section and shorter front flap) for wider light fixtures and more light will reach the tank rather than being blocked by the plastic strip that separates the flap from the glass. Take a look at This Link To All-Glass. Here you see a top for a 24" long tank for the Twin Tube. That is what you want (I believe). You can get this at LFSs and it should not be too expensive, maybe up to $20 I would guess (I don't remember).

Light: You have a 20 High, which is almost as high as my 29G (18 inches). I would assume that you could use a 65W power compact without having to add fancy CO2. The occasional shot of FLourish Excel and the standard fertilizers will be enough (once or twice a week). This Link Here shows you the fixture that I have in mind. It has a 6700K bulb that is right for plant growth. If you want to see it in action then hunt down my 29G log in the aquascaping forum. In the middle of that log I switch from 40W to this unit, 65W.

About starting this planted tank experience slow: I would suggest that you fill out almost the whole tank with plants right away. Pick some plants that you want to maintain in the long run and fill in the rest with fast growers like Wisteria and Water Sprite. This will help you to get the tank settled much faster.

Well, I hope this helps,

Ingo

EDIT: oh - I almost forgot. If you should decide on getting this unit then I would strongly suggest to get the set of legs for it as well (come in clear or black). They elevate the unite above the glass which gives the advantage that the unit can cool off better. It also allows you to remove the glass and keep the unit on so you can do some minor maintenance tasks (or hunting down a fishie) while having the light on.

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

i dont think we went off subject because the subject is gravel/planting tank eventually. lighting is an important part when growing plants.

i will consider your choices but i want to go to Petsmart to look at the light fixture i mentioned above somewhere to see if it would work.

even having 2 lights that are 15 watts would give me 30 watts total with about 1.5 watts per gallon. that wouldnt be too bad.

why cant they just make the stupid light fixtures for 2 lights and easier to do plants with???

kj fishy-finn <*)))><
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kj fishy-finn,

why cant they just make the stupid light fixtures for 2 lights and easier to do plants with???

They do

Here is a Link to the double-light fixture from All-Glass. This unit has 2x15 Watts, exactly what you seem to be looking for.

But - You would still need the glass top for a double light fixture and the K rating of the bulbs, albeit good, is not the best for plants (around 6,700K).
And - It would maybe be sufficient to grow some medium plants, or at least keep them alive. But if you want anything more then you will wish you had purchased a stronger unit.

No matter what you decide upon doing (except if you select to simply maintain your status quo) you will have to spend money. The unit you initially linked to (55W, actually also an All-Glass product) is nice, but overprized compared to the one (65W) I linked to. My Unit, including shipping and legs, costs as much as the 55W one, plus it has the right bulb and more wattage. Also, finding a replacement for the 55W bulb is a little harder as I believe there are less providers for this wattage (I only know of All-Glass as a major company making this wattage, but I didn't dig in deeper).

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

this weekend i will go to Petsmart and look at the one in my link that i posted earlier to see if it will work. if it doesnt then i wil consider your suggestion, but also am still open for others.

could i keep my light fixture, but get a new light that would be could for plant growth that is 18inches long. would it matter if it isnt 2watts per gallon or not??? someone posted earlier that said they are growing plants with a 15 watt light in 20 gallon like Amazon Swords and such, but i cant remember who.

i dont know what to do!!!!! help

kj fishy-finn <*)))><
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kj fishy-finn,

In the end, whatever you do is up to you

I would not think that a second unit on top of your tank would work because of depth issues.

I would strongly suggest not to get the fixture you originally linked to. While All-Glass makes a lot of good things, PC lighting is not their strength. I actually don't understand why you would like to pay $20 more for a fixture that has a bulb that for sure is not 6,700K (best for plants) and has 55W, means 10W less than the Current fixture in my link which has the right bulb.

About growing Amanzon Swords in 15W over 20G. While keeping the plant alive may work (I personally don't have an experience with it and don't know somebody with long-time success), growing is something else. Actually an Amazon Sword would grow too big for a 20G.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I don't know what the situation is like in the States with respect to light fitments, but here's what happens in the UK.

The tube is held in place by clips attached to the hood. Power is provide by "end caps" that fit onto the ends of the fluorescent tube, and which are connected by shielded cables to the driver unit. This allows you to place the fluorescent driver unit somewhat independently of the hood (the one powering the light in my Panda Fun Palace sits on a shelf screwed to the wall behind the aquarium).

Now, the "end caps" will fit ANY T8 fluorescent tube of approx 1 inch diameter. The unit I have is designed for 18 inch long tubes rated at 15 watts. Therefore, I can slot ANY tube of the requisite size and wattage rating in there. Quite handily, the tube manufacturers make a brace of aquarium lighting tubes that match this spec. Standardisation is a wonderful thing, is it not!

Consequently, I could fit a bog standard cheap warm white, or a Gro-Lux, or an Aqua-Glo (my current tube of choice). Therefore, if your fitments are designed anything like those here in the UK, the moment you buy a second driver unit for the new tube, you can mix and match tubes to your heart's content. If I opted for two fluorescent drivers so I could have two tubes, I could have an Aqua-Glo and a Gro-Lux or any other similar combination.

Oh, because the Aqua-Glo availbale here in the UK is such an excellent tube, I'm able to grow Amazon Swords in my Panda Fun Palace with just the one 15 watt tube - and what's more, my Amazon Swords throw off baby plantlets! They must like what I'm doing to do that


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

if i were to get a 2 tube fixture then what would be the best lights to get??? what do i want to be looking for when i am shopping for lights that are good for plant growth and good for viewing the aquarium and making it look the best???

kj fishy-finn <*)))><
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With a 2 tube fixture I assume you mean 2 x 15W. In this case, you could get one 6,700K tube (for the plants) and another one that is either 10,000 K (but not higher) or around 5,000 K (but not lower), both of which will help balance the green of the 6,700 K. If you want the best for the plants and don't mind some greenish hue to the light then get 2 6,700K.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club