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hey guys

i just got a new fish but i don't know exactly what it is. something like a maculutus angle or something. anyway lately its been acting kinda strange, it keeps losing its main clolour which is kinda grey and reverts to a kind or orangy cream colou, althoguh the big yellow spot on its side isn't changing, its kinda wierd. Its still eating normally but it doesn't swim around that much anymore. i have n idea whats wrong.

can somebody help?

from pocko

the very first qz that fish guru's in here will ask..."what are your water parameters?"

When does it change color? At night? If that is the case, it's most likly nothing. Many fish do this when the lights go out.

Dan

Hey Pocko - welcome to fishprofiles.com

Have you been keeping fish for some time or is this your first experience? If it is the latter, do you have test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH, often referred to as "parameters".

New tanks go through a process called cycling. If your tank is new and the tank wasn't cycled, then the fish may be feeling the effects of ammonia or nitrite.

If you don't know about cycling, here is a brief explanation: When fish are added to a tank, ammonia is created by the waste and uneaten food. A good bacteria develops that eats the ammonia and keeps it at zero, but this takes time and the ammonia levels can climb up. Levels can go high enough for fish to get sick and die. The bacteria that eats the ammonia, produces nitrite which is also harmful to fish. A second bacteria comes about that eats that, but once again, it is a slow process and in the beginning the nitrite can rise to high levels and cause fish death. Nitrate (note the "a" not "i", is what the nitrite-eating bacteria make and it is not much of a problem. We keep this in control with regular water changes. I do mine weekly.

If you don't have a test kit and you added this fish to a brand new tank and feel it may be cycling, then please do a 25% water change (without cleaning tank or disturbing gravel where bacteria grows), but make sure the water is the same temp. This is critical. If you put water in that drops the tank temp by 3-5 degrees or more, you can bring on temp shock and the fish can get "ich". You can take a bag of water to the fish store and ask them to test it. If you do this, bring us the numbers and we'll know where you are in your cycle. The water change will reduce the toxins.

If the fish store is easy to get to, please buy a bottle of New and Improved Cycle and follow directions. This is a bottle of good bacteria. If they don't have that, ask them what other bacterial starters they have.

What size tank is this and how many fish are in it?


Last edited by Cory_Di at 08-Nov-2004 07:16

I can't answer your questions really, but keep in mind that angels do change colors from juvenial to adult. Since you said its acting strange, it may not be that. But Angels don't keep the same coloration throughout their life.

thanks guys.

Well to start i've had this take for about 18 months now. It is a 4ft by 1ft by 2ft tank, holds about 300 and something liters. I have 4 blue damesils, a flame angle, a valentine puffer, 2 clown fish, a yellow damsil, a sailfin tang, a blue starfish, 2 anenomes and that diseased fish that i don't know the name of. A couple of days ago my blue tang also disappeard. My water parameters are: temp. 26 degrees celcius, i have 0 ammonia/ammonium, 0 nitrate/nitrite and my salt is at about 1.022. this fish does not change colour when the lights are off so its not becuase of that and its about 8 years old so i don't think that there is a chance that it is maturing, some of the other fish also start to act abit funny, the flame angle disapperad for the whole day but i found it in the afternoon and it was perfectly fine, it was like it was in one spot all day, also my sailfin tang has started to get like little dots on it, but i don't think that it is whitespot because only the sailfin tang and the unkown fish has them. overnight they also tend to disappear and then they sometimes come back. the unkown angle didn't come out and swim he just stay behind the rocks and kinda kept his position in the middle of the area. he didn't seem to touch the ground.

Thanks for your help

Pocko

Last edited by pocko at 09-Nov-2004 23:09

you sure about 0 nitrate? it is very normal to have small nitrate present.

The fact that all fish behave strangely means something is happening. Do they eat properly? Their interest in food will tell you whether they are ok or not.

the fish do eat normally even the sick one which i find strange, could you tell me about the exterior signs of ick cause i haven't come accross that yet and i have a feeling it may be what they have.

Pocko

Last edited by pocko at 09-Nov-2004 03:41

they look different to freshwater ones, instead of tiny white grain, they look rather big

The fish now have big black and white spots on their outside and they are starting to lose interest in their food. i think it might be ick but im not sure, can you suggest a medicine for whatever this problem is because i am sure that they will die soon. i purchased a tri-sulfate broad spectrum bacterial and fugus treatment but i have a feeling it maybe parasites. i'm going to give it a try but other than that i am fresh out of ideas

Pocko



Last edited by pocko at 10-Nov-2004 02:10

if it is ick...and if you can remove all invert's...

copper based treatment will be the best option, you can try obtain the "Seachem" Copper medication and just dose it as half of what it saids...

honestly we are not that fortunate as Aust. is very strict in imports of medications. There isn't much choice we have. That Seachem one I just mentioned is probably the best marine medication you can find locally. Unless you know exactly what's wrong with your fish and what's exactly needed for treatment then maybe you can get prescribed med from vets.

What you can do now is remove the inverts and slowly reduce your specific gravity to 1.020 and increase your temp to 27-28 degrees C, reduce lighting and maintain circulation. keep your water quality as high as possible and reduce feeding (since they not eating anyway, more food will just degrade your water) Keep your UV and ozonier on if you have them, but stop them as well as your skimmer if you do start using medications.

For parasidic infections, you can try "Waterlife - Sterazin" but it is now illegal in Aust but still some left overs around the shops. It will be hard but have a go trying to find those meds I mention.

You can forget about using those tri-sulpha stuff, in my own experience it never worked for marines. As well as forgetting Melafix and Pimafix, they are useless in my experience too.

If this is true saltwater Ick (Cryptocaryon irritans) then I'm not aware of any alternatives to copper based medication that work with it at the moment. However, research is being pursued in this field, so watch this space ...

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

i spoke to the fish supplier (St George aquarium) about it and they said to use something called kent marin rx.p. it's for parasites. i have used it today and am awaiting results. But its too late for my flame angle, i found him dead at the bottom of the tank the smorning. im not sure it is ick but i am close to positive that it isn't white spot. Only the big fish seem to have it as i think they may have got stressed when they were put in the tank. Anyway thatnks for your help.

from Pocko

sorry to hear that..hope your med works..rem to switch off skimmer otherwise all med becomes useless

Can you take a pic and post it? Actually several pics of the new addition and maybe some of the other fish? This would help tremendously.

The reason I ask, is there are dozens of illnesses of parasites, bacterial, and fungal diseases. And all types can look like white spots or areas on the fish. The one that has me kinda stumped is the black areas you refer to. I would like to see a pic so I can determine if they are maybe dark brown, or dark red areas. And, in the end, your fish could have more than one of these diseases. As many types of infections can lead to other types as well, when not treated properly.

The biggest problem in SW disease treatment, is some treatments for some diseases, actually contribute to other diseases. So if/when treating a marine animal with a possibly wrong treatment, you can actually end up advancing the original disease, and possibly causing death of the animal.

_____________________________________________________________

There is always a bigger fish...

thanks for your help. with the rx.p i am using it says to keep the protein skimmer on and too increase the foam production as the aim of the medicine is to peak when added and then drop fast. Overnight i collected a whole cup full of the stuff. My unknown fish is looking a little better now(not as many spopts on outside). I will try to get some pictures by tonight. Has anyone ever used rx.p, what is the success rate on uit and how long does it take to work?

Thanks for your help again

Pocko