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Hello-
My new 55 gallon aquarium has been cycling for several weeks now. I started it up with a filter from my 20 gal. I also moved a few plants into it (from the 20 gal as well). I've been dosing with Cycle.

Just over one week ago the aquarium was getting dirty (reddish-brown junk had settled everywhere). I scrubbed, did a water change, and put in a new filter, but the aquarium has continued to be dirty. It's not filthy, but it's dirtier than my aquariums (that actually have fish in them) will get.

The plants don't look fantastic either. They had less light than they should have in the 20 gal. Now they have what they need in the 55 gal. Did they get used to the low light conditions of the 20 gal?

I also decided to go with a substrate that is a mix of Eco Complete and sand blast media. I've only used gravel in the past, so not being able to gravel vac is new for me, and I'm not sure that I like it.

Any ideas as to why the aquarium is dirty? I haven't had this happen during a cycle before. Should I be concerned? Also, should I stick it out with the current substrate, or maybe take some of it out and add a top layer of plain ol' gravel that I can vac?

Thanks everyone!
Kari

Edit: I forgot to mention that there are no fish in this aquarium.

The reddish brown junk is probably just brown diatomic algae, and you pretty much just have to keep scraping it off followed by small water changes. When the silicates in the tank subside it will eventually cease to grow and the algae you do get will be a healthier green. It can take months sometimes.

The plants will probably respond to better light, its the change if nutrient level that might be causing them problems. A lot of long established plants also dont appreciate being moved at the root, since some of the finer root systems are crushed as they are reburied in the new tank. If the species you keep can be reproduced from replanted cuttings, give it a go. Cuttings often do better in new tanks than the adults they were taken from. A little fertiliser might be a good idea too. Light intensity and the uptake rate of nutrients are related. It might also be that the new sustrate lacks gas exchange and water circulation, so perhaps give it a stir periodically.

You can try carbon filters, it might help improve the water clarity.

Thanks for the helpful suggestions!
I have the day off tomorrow and plan to clean up the aquarium and stir up the substrate, as you suggested. I'll also do a water test to see where the cycle is right now. The plants in the aquarium are nothing special, so I will just toss them out, since I will be ordering new plants soon. I originally stuck them in only to help cycle the tank.
Since I am not in a huge hurry to get this aquarium going, I will continue to do small water changes until things clean up.
Thanks again-
Kari

but it's dirtier than my aquariums (that actually have fish in them)

If you have added the filter from the established tank and Cycle, but don't have fish in the tank...or some source of food for the bacteria (ammonia), then you are not cycling. I hope you are adding ammonia.

Like longhairedgit said, established plants don't like being moved around. I have had that happen between my tanks before...I take them out of one tank and in the new tank, they don't do as well.

Also, in a cycling aquarium, there aren't alot of nutrients for the plants, so adding some fertilizers is a good idea.

add a top layer of plain ol' gravel that I can vac

I wouldn't do that. The gravel may slowly fall to the bottom of the other layer and defeat the purpose of adding it in the first place. Also, the Eco-Complete and sand-blast stuff could compact under a layer of gravel and cause anaerobic pockets, which isn't good when you have fish in there.

How much light is on the tank? Low light, not enough aeration, and silicates cause brown diatom algae. How long do you leave the light on for each day?

I hope your adding ammonia. You didn't mention it, but I would hate to tell you that your tank isn't really cycling.

I understand that the dirty stuff bothers you, but I wouldn't do alot of water changes or scrubbing. If your tank is actually cycling, you could prolong the cycle by scrubbing away the good bacteria.

*Kristin*

Thanks for your helpful post, Kristin. No, I haven't been dosing with ammonia. I didn't with my other aquariums, though this was the first time I'd ever started up by seeding from another aquarium that was already fully cycled. I'll be sure to start dosing with ammonia as soon as I can.

I wasn't bothered by the tank being dirty; I'd just never had that happen before, and wasn't sure if things were progressing normally.

I have 2.5 watts/gallon, and have been running the lights for twelve hours each day. Please comment if you think that this is causing a problem.

I won't change the substrate (again, thanks for your imput). I love the way it looks, and I know that adding gravel on top will keep the nutrients farther away from the plants. I also think my Loaches will enjoy it more than the gravel in their current aquarium.

Won't do any water changes either. I am going to test the water tomorrow and see where things are.

I am planning to have a small school of Zebra Danios in this aquarium. When would be the best time to add them?

On a side note: I'm having trouble deciding on background plants for this aquarium. I have had Ambulia before and would like to use it again. I looked briefly at Crypt Spiralis and Retrospiralis, but think they will get too tall. I like Bacopa Caroliniana very much, but am not sure if I have enough light for it to do really well. Bolbitus (African Fern) was suggested by an LFS guy, but I don't know anything about it.
In the foreground I want to use E. Tenellus, with Anubias Nana and Crypt Wendtii just behind. Ozelot Sword, Java Fern, and Crypt Walkeri in the middle. One Giant Red Wendtii as a focal point. Maybe some Anacharis, in the mid-to-back area. I'm unsure about quantities. I am not looking to go heavily planted. Any comments on this? Thanks!

Kari

If you would rather cycle the aquarium with fish, you could get the danios right away. They are very hardy and should be fine through the cycling process.

If you add plants soon, then you could cycle the tank with the danios, and know that the levels won't get too high to hurt them. But, you would have to get the plants in really soon and the fish....because if its been weeks since you started cycling and you haven't been feeding the bacteria, I'm afraid you will have to start over. By now the bacteria would have died off.

When you test your parameters, you probably won't get anything. Since there isn't an ammonia source, ammonia and nitrite won't register. And you probably won't have any nitrates either.

I don't think the light would be causing the algae...it is alot of light on the tank, to not have many plants. But, too many watts over a tank usually doesn't cause brown algae. It is usually too less watts.

About plants...
I have a 55g planted tank and I have Crypt Retrospiralis as one of my background plants. It grows really slow. CO2 would probably increase the growth, but I don't have CO2. Mine has been in there for a few months and it is barely 6 inches tall (well my little section). If you go with them, I would get about 8 plants.

Bacopa will grow in your tank. I have it in mine, with ~2.4wpg and it grows very fast. I have to cut and replant the tops every week. If you go with the Bacopa, I would start with only 1-2 bunches because soon you will have too much.

Ambulia is also nice. I have a few stems in my tank and I thought it wouldn't do very well...but it is. It is not as bushy as it would be with higher light, but I like it anyways. I would get 2 bunches.

Anachris would be another background plant. Mine grows pretty fast and tall, so I wouldn't put it in front of anything. I would get 2 bunches.

Crypt wendtiis, if they aren't shaded by anything, will grow long leaves. A couple of mine that I have had for about 10 months have 10 inch long leaves...so I am glad I didn't put them in the foreground. I would get about 6-8 plants.

E. tennellus is a great foreground plant. I love the light green color of it. It spreads pretty fast. I would get a couple pots....or about 15 single plants.

An ozelot sword will get huge. I had one that started out in my 10g. I later moved it to my 55g where it got about 6-7 inches wide. I eventually took it out because it was getting wider and shading neighboring plants. If you aren't looking to go heavily planted....then one might work. Just don't put any plants near it that need alot of light.

I would put some java fern on a nice piece of driftwood. You could have a little group of 3-4 plants. They grow baby plants pretty quickly, so if you needed more, you would soon have them.

I may be way off on the quantities. When I ordered mine I didn't order enough...and then later when the stem plants started getting tall, I was overrun with them and ran out of room. With the crypts, you can place a couple together and spread the couples out about an inch or two apart. They get kind of wide...so leave room for that.

I would also post on the planted forum for more information. LittleFish and the other plant experts can offer better advice than me.

By the way...how do you like the Eco-Complete? I will hopefully be setting up another 55g tank soon, and I am leaning towards the Eco as my substrate.

*Kristin*

Thanks for offering your opinions on the plants. Very helpful! I'll post over in Planted Aquaria in a few minutes.
I tested the water perameters yesterday, and as you said, there was nothing happening. So I decided to start over. I did do a small water change so that I could eliminate the build-up, and took out all but 5 dwarf onion plants; all others were not looking good, and were starting to get messy.
I plan to order plants on Monday morning, get my aquascaping done, then add fish to cycle the aquarium. I'll probably use some of my Columbian Tetras, since they've done well with it twice before.
It's kind of funny now.....when I started this 55 gallon project I was really on the move....I couldn't wait to get everything going. And now, I'm just taking it easy....making mistakes, changing plans.....
That's how we learn, right?
Thanks a bunch for your help!
Kari

I forgot to comment on the Eco-Complete. I do like it very much. I am still getting used to the consistency, and how easily it stirs up. For my 55 gallon I think I bought 3 bags, and layered them with the contents of a 50 pound bag of sand blast media. The contrast is nice (as the Eco-Complete is black, and the SBM is light natural colors). The layers look neat from outside of the aquarium, despite the fact that it is probably completely non-functional!

Adding plants first is great. That will keep the ammonia and nitrite levels pretty low, so your fish should be fine. Try to plant it as much as you can (I know you aren't going heavily). Getting alot of the stem plants is a good idea. They will be very helpful during the cycle.

Wisteria is a good plant for cycling. It grows pretty fast so it would suck up the ammonia.

I have learned it is good to go slow. With my new project, I plan to go really slow. I want to get everything I need before I set it up (haven't done that in the past). I also want to plant it heavily before adding fish. I haven't even gotten the tank yet, but hopefully I will this week sometime. When I got my first 55g I was in a rush to get it set up. I just couldn't wait. But, I now know that slow is better.

Good luck...and don't forget to show us some pictures when you get the plants in there. (and fish too!)

*Kristin*

Ok, so I am back where I started.......
I did a small water change the other day, as I mentioned above, to clean up the brown junk (algae?) in the aquarium. In the middle of it I was called into work, and had to wrap things up asap. Anyway, several days passed, and the aquarium was looking great. Clean, smelled fine, clear water, etc. While checking on things Saturday night I realized that in my rush I had forgotten to add new filter media (I had tossed the filters because they were dirty and slimy, and couldn't scrub it off), so I added new filters. The next morning the aquarium was filthy again.
I've been on this website almost daily; reading, asking questions, etc. I'm getting a little bummed out and overwhelmed, and am wondering if I should have just stuck with my 20 gallon.
Can anyone tell me what is going on in this aquarium? What is the connection between the brown junk and the carbon filter? How do I eliminate it? Do I add plants and fish soon- will the aquarium then balance itself out eventually? Or do I cycle it without plants or fish? What do I need to do from here on out? Would a photo help, or does everyone know what is going on here?
I need a clue.
Thanks!
Kari

Hi Kari,

Well, you started off right. You brought stuff over from
and established tank and started your 55 up correctly.
What you missed was that the bacteria you brought over
needed something to feed on. That was why it was mentioned
that you needed to add some pure, no additive, no sented
ammonia a few drops (4 as I recall) per gallon.
The bacteria brought over, would feed on the ammonia and
begin the process of colonizing the new tank.
You would need to test at least once a day, and preferably
twice (before work & after) to maintain the correct
ammonia values. Over time, the ammonia readings will start
to drop, and the nitrite readings begin to peak as the
ammonia drops off. Keep adding the ammonia to the tank.
As the nitrite readings peak, the nitrate readings will
begin to show and slowly peak. At this time the ammonia
readings will drop to zero the nitrite readings start to
fall, and the nitrate readings rise.

When you can add the ammonia and not get an ammonia reading
after, say an hour, then the tank is cycled and ready for
fish.

Now, as to the plants. You brought over just a few.
Every time you move plants such as you did, they have to
become acclimated to the new tank. Before they were
thriving in aged gravel and had fish, and the nutrients
that they needed to grow were in the tank aplenty. Then
you shifted them to a new tank with fresh gravel, no fish,
and much less nutrients. That forced them to begin to
consume stored nutrients and in doing so the existing
leaves will yellow and die while new ones will begin to
grow as the plants send out new roots and get acclimated
to the new tank. Adding ammonia and the beginning of the
nitrogen cycle will, as nitrates form, begin to furnish
the nutrients that the plants need. You don't say anything
about your lighting. You now have a 55G tank that is
deeper and the lighting may be less watts per gallon than
in the 20. Try and have the same wpg or more for the 55.

As far as the brown stuff, that is completely normal in a
new tank. That is an outbreak of diatoms, and increased
light strength, a 10 hour lights on cycle, and regular
water changes will eliminate the stuff. The diatoms are
feeding on the silica in the gravel and water and thriving.
Circulating water - a running, adequate filter, for a 55G
tank, enough light, and regular aquarium maintenance will
resolve that problem.

References:
Fishless cycling:
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-fishless-cycling.htm

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html

Diatoms:
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/algaecontrol/a/aa091100.htm
Though the example is a saltwater tank the
facts are the same. I would not use any products to control
the outbreak just follow the logic and the housekeeping
hints in the article.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank- THANK YOU!
Your explaination has been very helpful: basic and to-the-point. It was exactly what I needed. The linked articles were extremely helpful as well. I appreciate it!
While doing my grocery shopping I checked for ammonia, but none passed the "shake" test. My husband told me that I can get ammonium chloride at a checmical company in town, so I will go there as soon as I can.
I have more light in my 55 gallon than I did in the 20 gallon, so I am fine there.
Would I be correct in planning to cycle the aquarium first, and then tackle the diatoms (water changes, cleaning, etc.) after the cycle is complete? Would running the air pump help in getting rid of the diatoms (by creating more circulation)?
Thanks everyone. I've really appreciated your opinions and advice!
Kari

Whether brown algae is there or not will make no difference to the cycle, and I guess incessant water changes during a cycle could be counter productive to the cycle itself, so you might as well cycle it, and start the process of getting rid of the diatomic algae after the fish are in. It might not look too pretty to start with, but it will work out chemically.

Thanks for the advice, longhairedgit. I'd prefer not to do any water changes during the cycle, so thanks for confirming that as a bad idea. I'm getting used to the aquarium looking cruddy.....haven't decided if that's good or bad! But, I do need to turn my full attention to those other two tanks for the time being. BTW, thanks for your advice about that as well!
Kari

I think once your tank cycles and everything settles in, the diatom algae will be gone. It is very common in new tanks. It is a pain to look at, but just focus on the cycle now and then try to find out the source of the algae later.

I have some type of brownish algae...maybe thread algae in my already cycled 55g. I've just learned to live with it. I have tried everything to get rid of the stuff.

*Kristin*

I never used to have problems with brown algae, and then I changed to black quartz gravels for display effect and the brown algae returned with a vengeance despite some fairly bright lights. In a 55 I still get the odd streak on the back panel behind the bogwood even months later, but its not a biggie.As long as you remember to vaccum after a good scrape you win eventually.

Things got crazy at work this week, as it often does!
I decided to try adding raw shrimp to the aquarium to provide ammonia. I'm still not sure if I really wanted to do it that way, but I've had zero time to hunt for ammonia. So, I put 5 shrimp in a stocking and dropped it in. It has been around 12 hours now, and, though I won't test until tomorrow, the water is showing visible signs of ammonia; so I am glad. The diatoms are no longer increasing as they were, and aside from some minimal glass scrubbing, I have left it alone. I've been running the air pump to increase circulation....don't know if it's helping, but I don't think it could hurt....
I'll post again when I do some testing.
Thanks everyone-
Kari

Hi,
We start the cycle with ammonia. The ammonia comes either
from fish waste (urea), or from a bottle off the shelf in
a store. Where ever did you come up with the idea that
rotting, dead fish, would provide the ammonia or the
kind of bacteria that would be needed.

If you can not find ammonia, then go to the LFS and get
some of the new, packaged, bacteria that is on the market.
Simply pour in the tank, and add fish. Or, get a few
really hardy fish to create the necessary ammonia to
start the tank cycling.

I would immediately remove the dead shrimp, drain the tank,
clean it, clean the gravel, and start over.
I can't begin to imagine the disaster that could
befall you with this attempt.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Wow, ok.
Thanks for posting about this, Frank. I'm quite bewildered, since I was advised about this type of cycling by several people, all long-time fishkeepers at LFS who have used this method themselves, and have recommended it to many customers......

Hi,
Well none of us are ever too old to learn, but I gotta tell
you, this is the first I've ever heard of starting a tank
this way in over 4 decades of fishkeeping.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--