FishProfiles.com Message Forums |
faq | etiquette | register | my account | search | mailbox |
Cycling With Fish | |
arry Small Fry Posts: 5 Kudos: 2 Votes: 0 Registered: 01-Feb-2007 | hi i bought my son a jewal 120 for christmas as usual with everything else he couldnt wait to get fish into the tank i started to notice that the ammonia levels were going up so for the last 16 days i have been taking 30 liters of water out every day when i replace the water i put in 1ml of intrepet number 1 fresh start in for every 5 liters of fresh water.every day i test the stats and the results always seem to be the same only today i noticed that the ph level has dropped from the usual 7.0 down to 6.6 would there be any reason for this i checked the filters today and except for a little dirt on the white filter pad the rest of the filter was like new would this also be normal with the water being in for around 5 weeks the fish he has in the tank are 4 zebra danios 5 platties 2 guppys 3 flame tetras and 6 cardinal tetras the water stats today were ph 6.6 ammonia 0.5 as is every day nitrite 0ppm nitrate 0ppm any help or advice would be great p.s he has a30 ltr tank with a red tail shark a sucker (bristlenose i think) 2 small cat fish and a siamese fighter would it be still to early to bring any of these into the tank thanks again |
Posted 01-Feb-2007 20:07 | |
aquapickle27 Enthusiast Posts: 182 Kudos: 98 Votes: 55 Registered: 28-Jan-2006 | It seems as if the cycle should be done after five weeks, maybe your test kit isn't accurate. †Aquapickle† |
Posted 02-Feb-2007 00:20 | |
arry Small Fry Posts: 5 Kudos: 2 Votes: 0 Registered: 01-Feb-2007 | i tested the smaller tank with the same test kit and the ammonia levels were ok |
Posted 02-Feb-2007 00:27 | |
aquapickle27 Enthusiast Posts: 182 Kudos: 98 Votes: 55 Registered: 28-Jan-2006 | ok †Aquapickle† |
Posted 02-Feb-2007 01:53 | |
divertran Fish Addict Posts: 784 Kudos: 469 Votes: 165 Registered: 14-Nov-2004 | What is this fresh start stuff? The reason for the lengthy cycle could have something to do with it, but I suspect instead that the water changes are the culprit. As long as the fish are appearing healthy I;d not do any water changes until the cycle is complete. Removing the ammonia is most likely the problem. The cycling process is when ammonia forms a bacteria grows and colonizes and comsumes the ammonia, leaving nitrite in it's place. When the nitrite levels are sufficient another bacteria gorws and colonizes and consumes it leaving behind nitrates. When your nitrites start falling off and your nitrate begins climbing the cycle is nearing completion. Removing the ammonia is taking away the starting block of the process, you need a source of it for the process to complete. Or even begin. |
Posted 02-Feb-2007 06:37 | |
arry Small Fry Posts: 5 Kudos: 2 Votes: 0 Registered: 01-Feb-2007 | the fresh start is the declorinater yes the fish are swimming around and look healthy enough if i didnt do the water changes would the ammonia levels not get too high and then i would have dead fish i understand what you are saying and it sounds right im new to this and everyone is giving me different advice ill not do any water changes for a while and see what happens should my nitrite levels then go up? and if so should i then do water changes how much and how often thanks for all the help |
Posted 02-Feb-2007 12:07 | |
FRANK Moderator Posts: 5108 Kudos: 5263 Votes: 1690 Registered: 28-Dec-2002 | Hi, Your tank is just barely getting started. With those few fish in a 120 you have quite a way to go and I'd expect it will take about a month to a month and a half to be cycled. I would not change the water, yet. The more you "dilute the soup" the longer the cycling process will take. Ammonia, in a cycling tank can spike to 6 before the nitrites start to show up. The nitrites can climb to 10 or even more before the nitrate readings start. Nitrate should be kept to something less than 40. Surprisingly some tap water can contain ammonia. I'd draw a glass of water and leave it set for 24 hours and then test it. I suspect you will find the pH will probably change, and you may show some ammonia as the water degases. I'd take out the flame and cardinals, they are not the most hardy fish to cycle a tank with, but that is just a suggestion, as long as they are showing no distress you/they may be safe. Frank -->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<-- |
Posted 02-Feb-2007 17:40 | |
aaronfry Hobbyist ? Posts: 76 Kudos: 55 Votes: 159 Registered: 01-Nov-2006 | |
Posted 02-Feb-2007 18:55 | |
arry Small Fry Posts: 5 Kudos: 2 Votes: 0 Registered: 01-Feb-2007 | cheers frank and everyone for the advice ill take the named fish out asap so your saying that i should just let the ammonia keep rising and dont do a water change would the rest of the fish be ok with high ammonia levels and when should i change water again thanks again everyone its great being new lol |
Posted 02-Feb-2007 19:21 | |
FRANK Moderator Posts: 5108 Kudos: 5263 Votes: 1690 Registered: 28-Dec-2002 | Hi, Right. I would not do anything till it reaches a 6 or 7 if it does. If you test and find the ammonia is a 6 or 7 with no trace of nitrite, then I probaby would do a small water change to knock the ammonia back down to just under the 6. But if you have nitrite buiding up then I'd let nature take its couse. I too have heard that the zebra's are a hardy fish and that many use them for cycling. Frank -->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<-- |
Posted 03-Feb-2007 05:20 | |
UNDEROATH87 Small Fry Posts: 3 Kudos: 2 Votes: 1 Registered: 27-Jan-2007 | Yes, Zebra Danios are one of the Hardiest fish to cycle with. And I'm not saying that if you do a new tank just fill it up and throw some danios in there. I think everyone should learn about fish-less cycling. It leaves you with a sense of knowing your not hurting or stressing your fish out and it's worth the wait of 4-6 weeks without the fish. |
Posted 08-Feb-2007 07:18 | |
juwel-180 Enthusiast Posts: 291 Kudos: 212 Votes: 17 Registered: 07-Dec-2005 | hi ye i used danios and some times nenos to cycle my tanks they are very hardy fish. Also good choice of tank very easy to run and keep love them! |
Posted 08-Feb-2007 18:57 | |
arry Small Fry Posts: 5 Kudos: 2 Votes: 0 Registered: 01-Feb-2007 | no water changes for a week now all fish still alivestats today ph 7.0 ammonia0.25 nitrite0ppm seems to be taking a very long time is this all normal |
Posted 08-Feb-2007 20:16 | |
FRANK Moderator Posts: 5108 Kudos: 5263 Votes: 1690 Registered: 28-Dec-2002 | Hi, If I'm looking at the right tank, that is a 120G tank and you have 25 very small fish in it. It is going to take at least a month for that number fish to excrete enough waste material for anything to show on your tests. It's probably too late, but I would try returning to your LFS and see about trading in the current fish for something more massive and as hardy as the Zebras. You see, once you start seeing the nitrite peak and drop off, the tank will be cycled. But, cycled for the few fish that you currently have in it. If you want to add more, and I assume you do, then you have to add them slowly so the bacterial colonies can grow to match the increase waste output of the greater quantity/size fish. If you go out and double the mass of fish and dump them in then the tank will go into a mini cycle while the bacteria colonies grow to use up the new waste. That mini cycle includes measurable ammonia and nitrite, and could kill off the new fish or at least some of them. Ideally, you should have a general idea of what you want to wind up with in the tank, and then cycle the tank so that it can support them immediately, once cycled. You could keep the current fish, and add regular, unscented household ammonia to the tank to bring it up (slowly) to a value of 4 or 5 and hold it there till the nitrite peaks, and continue to hold it there till the nitrite drops off to zero. When the nitrite drops to zero, then the tank has cycled and you can immediately purchase the remaining fish. If you wait, then the available ammonia decreases and the bacterial colonies start to die back. With a large tank, you cannot be impatient. Had I been you, I would have done the fish less cycle http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html and it would have been over with by now. Frank -->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<-- |
Posted 09-Feb-2007 01:03 | |
RickyM Enthusiast Posts: 175 Kudos: 101 Votes: 62 Registered: 12-Oct-2006 | Frank, This might be a 120 Litre tank... |
Posted 09-Feb-2007 05:34 | |
arry Small Fry Posts: 5 Kudos: 2 Votes: 0 Registered: 01-Feb-2007 | yes it is a 120 liter tank |
Posted 09-Feb-2007 08:25 | |
FRANK Moderator Posts: 5108 Kudos: 5263 Votes: 1690 Registered: 28-Dec-2002 | Interesting.. When I looked up a jewel 120 it referenced gallons not liters. oops... Frank -->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<-- |
Posted 09-Feb-2007 08:35 | |
djrichie Big Fish Rough but Honest [img]htt Posts: 366 Kudos: 309 Votes: 45 Registered: 29-Jan-2007 | Frank is always full of great advice and knowlegde. Yes a larger tank will take a long time to cycle, however is you have fish in the tank the load that they put on a new tank is increditable, and you nitrites and nitrate levels will be very high during this time. I do however disagree with frank when he seid in an earlier post don't do water changes because you want the tank to cycle. However, you have living creature in that water and you have a responsiblity to care for them. So, keep checking your levels and when they become dangerous to the fish change it. You can also add a cycling booster to the water that will speed up the process. When I set-up my sons 55gal tank he couldn't wait for the fish either, so I had to decide was the amount of work I would have to put in it worth making him happy. the answer was simple, break out the buckets because we would be doing water changes everyday. If you stock you tank 2 fast (new tank syndrom) you have work at keeping it safe for the fish. Which is why I have so many nice tanks, people buy then set them up and stock them in one day, than not knowing all the fish DIE, hence they get scared and give tha tanks away. Just keep checking your levels and when they get to high do a 10% water change. You will most likly have to do this everyday. Also get the cycle additive add it to your filter not the water this way it get into you bio-filter and then into the tank. Good luck and enjoy the work it will be worth it in the long run. Also I read in a post, that you can use ammonia from the store to help cycle tanks without fish. I have not tries this yet but I'm going today to pick up another 55gal system today. (another person who couldn't keep their fish alive) After I get everything together I will try this see if it works or will it make a poor cycled water. Will see Djrichie "So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams |
Posted 09-Feb-2007 16:14 | |
longhairedgit Fish Guru Lord of the Beasts Posts: 2502 Kudos: 1778 Votes: 29 Registered: 21-Aug-2005 | I have this urge and I must obey it. Fishless cycling perhaps? Every time i see someone buy fish to cycle a tank I get this huge sinking feeling and tend to think, oh gawd not another one taking unessesary risks with fishy lives. Why not wait it out, get the plants going, settle on a really gorgous decor, and either chuck some ammonia in to cycle it, or just chuck some fishfood in and let it rot. It aint quick, but lets be honest whats the rush? Think of the hundreds of thousands of fishy lives that could have been saved over the years but for a little patience. |
Posted 12-Feb-2007 07:50 |
Jump to: |
The views expressed on this page are the implied opinions of their respective authors.
Under no circumstances do the comments on this page represent the opinions of the staff of FishProfiles.com.
FishProfiles.com Forums, version 11.0
Mazeguy Smilies