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SubscribeCycling With Fish
arry
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Small Fry
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Registered: 01-Feb-2007
male northernireland
hi i bought my son a jewal 120 for christmas as usual with everything else he couldnt wait to get fish into the tank i started to notice that the ammonia levels were going up so for the last 16 days i have been taking 30 liters of water out every day when i replace the water i put in 1ml of intrepet number 1 fresh start in for every 5 liters of fresh water.every day i test the stats and the results always seem to be the same only today i noticed that the ph level has dropped from the usual 7.0 down to 6.6 would there be any reason for this i checked the filters today and except for a little dirt on the white filter pad the rest of the filter was like new would this also be normal with the water being in for around 5 weeks the fish he has in the tank are 4 zebra danios 5 platties 2 guppys 3 flame tetras and 6 cardinal tetras
the water stats today were
ph 6.6
ammonia 0.5 as is every day
nitrite 0ppm
nitrate 0ppm
any help or advice would be great
p.s he has a30 ltr tank with a red tail shark a sucker (bristlenose i think) 2 small cat fish and a siamese fighter would it be still to early to bring any of these into the tank
thanks again
Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2007 20:07Profile PM Edit Report 
aquapickle27
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It seems as if the cycle should be done after five weeks, maybe your test kit isn't accurate.

†Aquapickle†
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2007 00:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
arry
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Small Fry
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male northernireland
i tested the smaller tank with the same test kit and the ammonia levels were ok
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2007 00:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
aquapickle27
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ok

†Aquapickle†
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2007 01:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
divertran
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What is this fresh start stuff? The reason for the lengthy cycle could have something to do with it, but I suspect instead that the water changes are the culprit. As long as the fish are appearing healthy I;d not do any water changes until the cycle is complete. Removing the ammonia is most likely the problem. The cycling process is when ammonia forms a bacteria grows and colonizes and comsumes the ammonia, leaving nitrite in it's place. When the nitrite levels are sufficient another bacteria gorws and colonizes and consumes it leaving behind nitrates. When your nitrites start falling off and your nitrate begins climbing the cycle is nearing completion. Removing the ammonia is taking away the starting block of the process, you need a source of it for the process to complete. Or even begin.
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2007 06:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
arry
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Small Fry
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male northernireland
the fresh start is the declorinater yes the fish are swimming around and look healthy enough if i didnt do the water changes would the ammonia levels not get too high and then i would have dead fish i understand what you are saying and it sounds right im new to this and everyone is giving me different advice ill not do any water changes for a while and see what happens should my nitrite levels then go up? and if so should i then do water changes how much and how often
thanks for all the help
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2007 12:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
Your tank is just barely getting started. With those
few fish in a 120 you have quite a way to go and I'd
expect it will take about a month to a month and a half
to be cycled.
I would not change the water, yet. The more you "dilute
the soup" the longer the cycling process will take.

Ammonia, in a cycling tank can spike to 6 before the
nitrites start to show up. The nitrites can climb to
10 or even more before the nitrate readings start.
Nitrate should be kept to something less than 40.

Surprisingly some tap water can contain ammonia. I'd
draw a glass of water and leave it set for 24 hours and
then test it. I suspect you will find the pH will probably
change, and you may show some ammonia as the water
degases.

I'd take out the flame and cardinals, they are not the most
hardy fish to cycle a tank with, but that is just a
suggestion, as long as they are showing no distress
you/they may be safe.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2007 17:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
aaronfry
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EditedEdited by aaronfry
I personaly use Danios for Cycling. Works every time

"No whammy, No whammy, No whammy, STOP!!"

1984-Michael Larsen On Press Your Luck
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2007 18:55Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
arry
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Small Fry
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Registered: 01-Feb-2007
male northernireland
cheers frank and everyone for the advice ill take the named fish out asap so your saying that i should just let the ammonia keep rising and dont do a water change would the rest of the fish be ok with high ammonia levels and when should i change water again
thanks again everyone
its great being new lol
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2007 19:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
Right. I would not do anything till it reaches a 6 or 7
if it does. If you test and find the ammonia is a 6 or 7
with no trace of nitrite, then I probaby would do a small
water change to knock the ammonia back down to just under
the 6. But if you have nitrite buiding up then I'd let
nature take its couse.

I too have heard that the zebra's are a hardy fish and
that many use them for cycling.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2007 05:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
UNDEROATH87
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Small Fry
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Registered: 27-Jan-2007
male usa
Yes, Zebra Danios are one of the Hardiest fish to cycle with. And I'm not saying that if you do a new tank just fill it up and throw some danios in there. I think everyone should learn about fish-less cycling. It leaves you with a sense of knowing your not hurting or stressing your fish out and it's worth the wait of 4-6 weeks without the fish.
Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2007 07:18Profile Homepage AIM MSN Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
juwel-180
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male uk
hi ye i used danios and some times nenos to cycle my tanks they are very hardy fish. Also good choice of tank very easy to run and keep love them!
Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2007 18:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
arry
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Small Fry
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male northernireland
no water changes for a week now all fish still alivestats today
ph 7.0
ammonia0.25
nitrite0ppm
seems to be taking a very long time is this all normal
Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2007 20:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
If I'm looking at the right tank, that is a 120G tank
and you have 25 very small fish in it. It is going to
take at least a month for that number fish to excrete
enough waste material for anything to show on your tests.

It's probably too late, but I would try returning to your
LFS and see about trading in the current fish for something
more massive and as hardy as the Zebras.

You see, once you start seeing the nitrite peak and drop
off, the tank will be cycled. But, cycled for the few fish
that you currently have in it. If you want to add more, and
I assume you do, then you have to add them slowly so the
bacterial colonies can grow to match the increase waste
output of the greater quantity/size fish. If you go out
and double the mass of fish and dump them in then the tank
will go into a mini cycle while the bacteria colonies grow
to use up the new waste. That mini cycle includes
measurable ammonia and nitrite, and could kill off the new
fish or at least some of them.

Ideally, you should have a general idea of what you want
to wind up with in the tank, and then cycle the tank so
that it can support them immediately, once cycled.

You could keep the current fish, and add regular,
unscented household ammonia to the tank to bring it up
(slowly) to a value of 4 or 5 and hold it there till the
nitrite peaks, and continue to hold it there till the
nitrite drops off to zero. When the nitrite drops to
zero, then the tank has cycled and you can immediately
purchase the remaining fish. If you wait, then the
available ammonia decreases and the bacterial colonies
start to die back.

With a large tank, you cannot be impatient. Had I been
you, I would have done the fish less cycle
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html
and it would have been over with by now.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2007 01:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
RickyM
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male canada
Frank,

This might be a 120 Litre tank...
Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2007 05:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
arry
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Small Fry
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male northernireland
yes it is a 120 liter tank
Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2007 08:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Interesting..
When I looked up a jewel 120 it referenced gallons not
liters.

oops...

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2007 08:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
djrichie
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male usa
EditedEdited by djrichie
Frank is always full of great advice and knowlegde. Yes a larger tank will take a long time to cycle, however is you have fish in the tank the load that they put on a new tank is increditable, and you nitrites and nitrate levels will be very high during this time. I do however disagree with frank when he seid in an earlier post don't do water changes because you want the tank to cycle. However, you have living creature in that water and you have a responsiblity to care for them. So, keep checking your levels and when they become dangerous to the fish change it. You can also add a cycling booster to the water that will speed up the process. When I set-up my sons 55gal tank he couldn't wait for the fish either, so I had to decide was the amount of work I would have to put in it worth making him happy. the answer was simple, break out the buckets because we would be doing water changes everyday. If you stock you tank 2 fast (new tank syndrom) you have work at keeping it safe for the fish. Which is why I have so many nice tanks, people buy then set them up and stock them in one day, than not knowing all the fish DIE, hence they get scared and give tha tanks away.

Just keep checking your levels and when they get to high do a 10% water change. You will most likly have to do this everyday. Also get the cycle additive add it to your filter not the water this way it get into you bio-filter and then into the tank.

Good luck and enjoy the work it will be worth it in the long run.

Also I read in a post, that you can use ammonia from the store to help cycle tanks without fish. I have not tries this yet but I'm going today to pick up another 55gal system today. (another person who couldn't keep their fish alive) After I get everything together I will try this see if it works or will it make a poor cycled water. Will see


Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams
Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2007 16:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
longhairedgit
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I have this urge and I must obey it. Fishless cycling perhaps?

Every time i see someone buy fish to cycle a tank I get this huge sinking feeling and tend to think, oh gawd not another one taking unessesary risks with fishy lives. Why not wait it out, get the plants going, settle on a really gorgous decor, and either chuck some ammonia in to cycle it, or just chuck some fishfood in and let it rot. It aint quick, but lets be honest whats the rush? Think of the hundreds of thousands of fishy lives that could have been saved over the years but for a little patience.
Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2007 07:50Profile MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
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