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Hi everyone.

I'm brand new to the aquarium hobby, and I'm trying my best to "do it right". I hope this was the proper forum to post these questions.

I setup a 10 gallon tank the other day, and I'm letting the water stablize.

My problem is the water temp is always very high, even if the heater is not plugged in.

The coolest I've seen the water is 82F and in the late afternoon/early evening it gets to around 86F.

I live in Los Angeles, on the 3rd floor of an apartment complex, and we're not allowed to have air conditioners. Good for my electric bill & the environment, bad for my comfort and apparently my fish tank.

So, I have 2 questions....

1: Is there anything safe I can do to keep the water cooler?

2: If not, what fish would be best for such warm water?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Gollum65,
You came to the right spot, like you I am pretty new to this hobby and this site has helped out a ton. I believe they sell water chillers just for this reason. I'm not sure I could be totally wrong but google water chillers and see what happens. As far as fish go look through the fish profiles to see if any of those fish would be compatible. Good luck and let me know what you find out

Justin

Colts Fan For Life
30g platy tank: 2 sunburst wag platys, 2 redtailed white calico platys, 2 red wag platys, 1 fry(not sure who it belongs to), 1 Golden CAE.
Bettas:1 VT male

Your not going to get the tank any cooler than the room it's in without something like a chiller and since chillers cost a considerable amount it's not worth it for a 10g. You can float ice or frozen bottles of water in there but unless you change them consistently throughout the day it's only going to lower the temperature temporarily(maybe an hour). Fish do better with a steady high temp than a changing temp. If the room is cooler then turning off any tank lights, opening the top completely, and blowing a fan across the top of the water will bring it down to the same temp as the room.

There are plenty of warm water fish but there aren't many fish that fit in a 10g. About all I could suggest is a pair of blue rams. A 10 is too small for most schooling fish so all the usual tetras mentioned for a warm tank are pretty much out. Same for loaches and cories. Angels are way too big. 10g tanks are best only used as species or breeding tanks where you have just a couple or even 1 of a single species. If you had at least a 20g then there are quite a few options for warm water fish especially since schooling fish can be included but 10s are hard enough to stock well.

Thanks for the responses guys.

I have a decent sized "floor fan" that is on a 3 foot tall stand. I put it about a foot from the tank, at tank level, and turned it on high speed. We'll see if it makes a difference.

As I write this, the water temp is down to about 83F, which is typical early in the day.

The local tropical fish shop, that's been in the same store for 30 years, recommended I start with 5 "red neon tetras". I can't find this fish in the profiles. They're about an inch long, orange in color, and have black dorsal fins.

I'll post in a day or 2 to update how they cope with their new surroundings.

I'd suggest a few female bettas, or even just one male. They're really colorful and like warmer still waters.

Don't even think about chillers, they're around $1K US and they're not very efficient, and will make your electric bill so far behind that the national debt will seem like pocket change.

Increase the surface agitation, that will help keep the water oxygenated and combined with a fan will help keep the water cooler. Like sham said fish will always do better with a steady temp than shifting temps. I managed to give my fish ick dropping ice cubes in, even just a little will cause stress. I don't reccomend it.

Welcome to the site

^_^

Hi Gollum and welcome to this site!

The cardinal tetra is sometimes referred to as the "red neon", but it is certainly not orange. Ask the person in your store for a scientific name. BTW, your water is pretty hard, correct? If this is the case, it will exclude fish that have a special requirement for 'soft' water like the cardinal tetra. These fish actually develop health problems in very hard water.

Well, I just looked at photos from this site and others of the Cardinal Tetra, and it doesn't appear to be the same fish.

I'll see if I can get some photos up on the web somewhere and post a link so you guys can tell me what they are.

So far it's been about 20 hours and they seemed to be fine. When I woke up this morning, one of the fish was hanging out by the filter, which I know is not a good sign, but after a few minutes he swam away and rejoined the group and has been fine since.

I plan on doing the first water cycle tomorrow. That'll be 48 hours in the tank.

I think our water is hard, but I'm not sure. I do know that the pH level was over 8, so I had to buy a neutralizer to get it closer to 7.

Ok, here is what they look like. My digital camera takes terrible photos, but I think you guys will be able to identify them.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3978/fishqd6.jpg

That's a serpae tetra. I'm puzzled why anyone would call it a "red neon"...

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After reading the profile for the Serpae, he may have called it a Red Phantom Tetra, which the profile says can be confused with the Serpae.

I know I can't tell the difference.

What I'm curious about is why he'd sell me fish that prefer water below 80F when I specifically told him my water was very warm?

For a store that's consider the "experts" in this county, and has been in business for ~30 years, I'm not that impressed so far.

But, I guess if they survive and do well, then maybe he was right.

Ok, ~48 hours and counting, and so far all 5 fish seem healthy and happy.

When I get up in the morning, there is always 1 fish hanging out near the filter, but after a few minutes he swims away and rejoins the others. I assume he's sleeping? This is how little I know about fish....Do they sleep?

I did the tank's first 20% water change yesterday, which was easier then I expected it to be. I'm not sure when I should do the next one. Any advice?

The combination of cooler days around here and the fan blowing on the tank seems to have stabalized the water temp at about 82F. If we get another very hot day, which could happen this weekend, I'll be watching to see how high the water temp gets.

Ok guys, some new questions for your perusal.

I've had these 5 tetras in the tank for 6 days now, and the tank has been operating for 8 days. So far, all 5 fish are still alive and swimming, but I am a bit concerned about a couple.

It's still hard to tell which fish are which because when I get near the tank they all start swimming normally, but there are 2 fish that seem to be losing interest in eating, and there are 2 fish that seem content to hover near the surface all day, unless someone comes near the tank.

Now, because they look the same, I can't be sure if the 2 who aren't eating as much are the same 2 who are spending the day hovering, but I'm guessing they are.

My tank's Ph level appears to be about 7.2, and right now the amonia level is between 0.05 and 0.10. I used "cycle" to try and help the tank finish it's first cycle safely.

Last week I did a 20% water change. I've also added water a couple of times to keep the tank full, making sure of course to properly treat the water before I add it.

So my question is....

If these 2 fish are indeed in some distress, would doing another 20% water change help these guys?

TIA.

What are the ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte readings on the tank?

Using Cycle on a tank will help by adding benificial bacteria, but will not fully cycle the tank. Ammoinia and NitrIte will stress the fish causing increased risk of illness, doing a water change will lower the ammounts BUT ammonia needs to build high enough for the nitrIte to grow, and nitrIte needs to grow in large enough ammounts for the nitrAte to take over. Doing water changes will lower the ammount of ammonia and nitrIte but will extend the ammount of time that the fish need to be subjected to them. This is the fish tanks version of rocks and hard places.

Letting the water level lower itself a bit can help by increasing the ammount of splash as it falls back into the tank if you're using a HOB style filter Any breaking of surface tension is helpful and is why many people use airstones.

^_^

Thanks for the reply Bablefish. Honestly, I don't know the exact levels. I'm using a test kit by hangs inside the tank, made by Mardel. I'd say the ammonia level shown on the kit is between 0.05 and 0.10, but I can't give an exact #, and the kit doesn't measure nitrIte levels.

Guess that's another thing I have to invest in, a better test kit.

I did another water change yesterday, and the fish seem to be "feeling better". They're acting more normal now then they were 24 hours ago.

That said, I understand your point about changing the water extending the time the fish are exposed to higher levels of ammonia.

I won't do another water change for a few weeks now. Hopefully my fish can hang on that long.

Frank makes some great points in his post in this thread it's worth a read if you havent yet seen it.

As for test kits, ya, we all hate the big outlay but it's well worth the cost when you need to know your readings at 3am (and yes it's very likely that you'll need to know them at 3am )
IME the master test kit from aquarium pharm is the best and most economical. Bigals online has it for a good price and they ship pretty quickly. I've always been happy with my orders (they do member points too )

^_^

welcome to fishprofiles gollum, JRR Tolkein fan myself! I love those Serpae Tetras, beautiful fish!

I would really recommend getting that liquid test kit Babel was talking about. I got mine for $20US + shipping from www.liveaquaria.com. It's accurate and pretty easy to read agains the color charts they provide. It took nearly two months to cycle my tank so be patient.

Here's some great info on tank set up, the cycle, equipment and what not.

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/3153.1.htm?16#

Keep hanging around this site and asking questions. I am totally new to fishkeeping and have learned a TON from these people on here!

Good luck, and enjoy the Serpaes, they are great looking little fish!

I agree with the suggestions of a little fan blowing across the water's surface. I have your problem every summer and I bought each tank one of those little personal fans. It brings the temp down in each tank by several degrees. As this means you need to leave the tank open for the air to blow on, it may not work if you have fish that may jump out.

Cheers
TW

Yes, having the fan next to the tank has certainly made a difference. The water doesn't get above 84 now, and yesterday was a pretty hot day here.

Ok, I'll get the test kit next week.

Thanks for the responses guys.