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Ive just spent the weekend setting up my new tank and have marble chip gravel in it as it came with the tank when i bought it. I was speaking to my LFS guy and he said marble chip gravel raises the PH level to around the 8 mark and therefore id only be able to stock the tank with cichlids .. is this true??

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Hi,
The answer could be yes, and no.

Marble is metamorphic limestone, a carbonate rock.
Over time the water will become increasingly hard and
the pH will climb.

That was the yes, it could cause problems.

However, if you put the fish in the tank when the water and
substrate is new, it should take a while for the water to
"harden up" and during that time, most fish will adapt to
those changes.

Folks who keep the Rifts and other high pH fish always
use some form of carbonate as substrate such as
crushed dolomite, crushed coral, crushed limestone,
or crushed oyster shells.
Also, they will generally use carbonate rocks for
decorations.

Avoiding large shifts in pH and GH is the key.
Shifting water chemistries within short periods of
time will cause stress to the fish and make
them e to disease.

Frank




Last edited by FRANK at 21-Nov-2005 00:20

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for your informative reply Frank. I think i got most of it.. though i never was good in the areas of geology and chemistry

I havent as yet stocked the tank (its still cycling) what would you recommend i stock it with? i was going to move my cories from my 20g tank but i dont think ill be able to move them now?

Would i be better off in the long run to change the gravel now while i still can?

---

Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Hi,
Depending upon the size of the marble chips, you might
want to put, say a half inch layer of gravel atop of it
and plant some plants such as Val that enjoy some calcium
in the water. For fish, pehaps some Platies, perhaps
the American Flag Fish. I'm sure that there are a bunch,
its just that I'm not all that familiar with the varieties
that prefer the harder water.
You could also turn the tank into a brackish tank and
put mollies in it.

As to changing the gravel, I would give it serious
consideration. The white marble, will over time, change
to a brown or blackish color as it stains from the organics
in the tank (gets dirty). Regular gravel will leave you
with many, many, more options for both fish and plants.

Frank


Last edited by FRANK at 22-Nov-2005 00:15

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

With the marble chip substrate the pH will eventually raise to 8 to 9. This is not generally in the liking of Cories. Maybe leave the Cories in the other thank. Oh and how large is this tank.

Maybe some fish catfish like a Syno or two will be nice. They can get large so research which ones will be best for your tank first. Also maybe some easy fish to look after like some electric yellows would be good. They are really beautiful and will love the hard water. Look up the rift lake cichlids in the profiles here, and ask here on the ones you like and take a stab.

-- Gomer

Thanks for all your advice! its been really helpful!
Ok this weekend im gng to change all the gravel.. im gng to leave a thin layer of the marble chip at the bottomn and then the rest will be regualr black gravel...what do you think?
i was thinking against the black my albino cories will stand out and i was thinking of stocking the tank with fish like african butterfly cichlids some fish with the same Ph levels and hardness.... will that work?
will it be ok to put plants in as well?

thanks again for all you help!

---

Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Hi,
Sounds like a plan to me. Yes the plants will work.
Try some such as Val that enjoy the harder water and
the Calcium in it.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Ok what a weekend it has been! i have changed the gravel over to just plan natural gravel with a thin layer of the marble chip on the bottom and also added a small bag of bigger pebbles (the marble chip looks great on the garden!)

anyway tested the water friday morning and it all looked great no ammonia Ph was up but added some Ph down so that it was in the 7-8 range nitrates and nitrites were fine (i cant remember what they were!) one was 0ppm ... i cant work out how to use the carbonate hardness test kit though.. it never seems to change to the colour on the instruction sheet.. can anyone help???

so meanwhile i set up some decs.. i have two pieces of driftwood in there as well as a rock and a few fake plants (not big on these though but i noticed in all the display aquariums they had fake plants) and i have added my first fish to the tank... i got 4 grant's peacock cichlids.. 1 male and 3 females.. they seem pretty content in there and happy in there.. so much for my cories now! i saw these fish and fell in love with them!!

can anyone suggest what other fish to add with them? the tank is 56 gallons...
thanks!

---

Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Hi,
It sounds like it will be a nice tank. The only comment
I have is about your use of the pH Down product. As long
as you have the Marble chips in the tank, the pH will be
constantly rising into the "8s." You could wind up helping
to support that company, forever. Personally, I'd stick
to fish that like the higher pHs such as the African Rifts,
or perhaps Mollies, etc.

Frank.


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

true... those cichlids can tolerate high Ph levels (8's) so i think they should be ok in there as long as i keep an eye on the ph levels over the next month... the marble chip is now only a very thin scattered layer on the bottom of the tank...

is there anything else i can add to lower the ph naturally...like plants???

would it be safe to add my bristlenose to the tank from my other tank?
or would my siamise algae eater be better? just to keep the tank floor tidy....

im also feeding the cichlids flakes.. is there anything else they might like?

thanks for all your help Frank!

---

Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Hi Again,
Well it seems counter productive to have the chips in the
tank, and still strive to lower the pH. Yes, you can
lower the pH naturally with the use of peatmoss. If your
tap water is naturally a high pH, then a layer of peat
moss under the gravel or better yet, in a section of your
filter, would slowly reduce the pH.
While you have the marble chips in the tank, you are
tugging at both ends of the rope.

Plants will not affect your pH. They will affect the
nitrate reading by lowering it as the plants consume the
nutrients.

I don't know enough about the plecos to advise you, and
for the other fish, a varied diet with live food, frozen
food, and flake foods would bring out their colors and
possibly stimulate their breeding habits, not to mention
good health.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for your reply frank!

i tested the water again last nite and the Ph is sitting in the low 8's region so i think thats pretty safe... i will keep an eye on though...

thanks again for all your help..

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

hi frank,

i am interested in what you said about the peat moss in the filter. Is it the normal peat that you can get from the nursery or is it special stuff from the LFS? and will it change the colour of the water a bit, eg. make it turn a bit brown? I am always battling to get the pH in my tank down...

Hi Connie,
Yes it is regular peat moss that you can get from the
local garden store. Just be sure that it is "pure,"
that is there are no additives. Many times they add
stuff to their products to make them more effective, or
to do other things.

Put the moss in the toe of some hose, and tie it off,
then insert it in the output side of the filter so the
water flows through it and then back into the tank.

It can tinge the water a yellowish brown, like a weak
tea, but the color is harmless.

Hope this helps.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

yes thank you, that's very helpful info!