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Hi there! My name is Wayne and I have recently set up a freshwater tropical aquarium. My tank is a 65litre (about 17 US gallons) which has been going for about 6 weeks. I currently have 6 Zebra Danios cycling the tank. I have a couple of questions if that is okay, firstly about the cycling and then about stocking.

The tank is still cycling but I am a bit worried that the nitrite levels don't seem to be going down. The tank is an Aqua Start 500 with an undergravel filter. It is well planted but with fake plants (I want to start with fake and maybe add/replace with live as my experience grows).

Two weeks after adding the Danios amonia spiked as expected, and then after a week or so died off and is now pretty much zero. Nitrite than started to rise and has been high (measuring 1.6 I think) for two weeks with no signs of it falling despite frequent water changes. Any ideas? The fish seem to be healthy enough. To be fair I think we were overfeeding them for a while. Our local aquarium shop advised us to reduce feeding to about once every 3 days. How long should it take for nitrite to fall and can I do anything to help?

As far as stocking goes I am currently thinking along the following lines (to be added over several months):

- 6 Zebra danios (which are in the tank and doing fine as far as I can tell)
- 4 bronze corydoras
- 1 clown pleco (for the algea - and my wife likes sucker fish)
- A centrepiece fish - maybe a blue or pearl gourami or two dwarf gouramis

Does that sound about right for the tank?

Thanks,
Wayne

I think you should add more corys and not get the pleco. I'm also not sure how your danios will react to a gourmi. They are nippy.

Inky

IME 1.6 nitrites is not high. I don't know exactly what value is considered too high, but I have had 2-3ppm nitrite in a cycled tank. I think you are still cycling.

I suggest feeding every other day instead of every 3rd day only what your fish can eat in a couple minutes. A couple small pinches of flake food or a couple shakes of pellet food will be enough for 6 fish. More food is more ammonia that will eventually lead to nitrites and nitrates.

I agree with inkling on your stocking...lose the pleco. If you develop algae, then go with a few ottos. Plecos are big waste producers and in a 17g tank, it would give you a big nitrate boost (not what you want).

I actually don't recommend putting bronze cories in a 17g. IMO I wouldn't put them in anything less than a 30g. Bronze cories are a little bigger, reaching about 3 inches. If you want cories I suggest Habrosus or Pygmy cories which stay around an inch.

Blue and pearl gouramis get too big for a 17g. 17g is on the small side IMO. One dwarf gourami would be ok for centerpiece. Usually two gouramis get pretty aggressive towards each other and may fight alot.

I have had danios and 2 dwarf gouramis together in a 10g (before I knew what I was doing) and they left each other alone. I had problems with the DGs fighting.

*Kristin*

You could also do panda corys as they stay a shade under 2 inches. As a centerpiece you could go with a German or Bolivian Ram. They both are very colorful and most important, peaceful.

Thanks for the replies. I will lose the Pleco and maybe consider a couple of Dwarf Sucking Catfish if algea becomes a problem. I am still considering what to about the centrepiece fish. The Rams look like they may be more difficult to keep than gourami for a beginner, but I should certainly go for dwarf gourami if I choose them at all. I am also wondering about a small school of mid-layer fish instead (e.g. 6 neon tetras). The cordys will be next though - Panda if I can get them.

Anyhow, as the tank is still cycling I can keep thinking. I am still a bit worried that the nitrite has not started to come down yet (the reading is about 1.6 mg/l). From what I had read the nitrites were supposed to go more quickly than amonia, yet the amonia cleared in a week and three weeks later there is no drop in nitrite.

Wayne

The Rams look like they may be more difficult to keep than gourami for a beginner

Not really. Bolivians are not as delicate as Germans. They get a little bigger though (about 4 inches). They are just as peaceful. I suggest getting one of those instead of a DG. They are more interesting and pretty to me (if you get a male).

As for the tank readings...are you registering any nitrates yet? I am not sure about the nitrites not falling. I have cycled all my tanks in a matter of 3 weeks or less but I had them planted and never had any problems.

Wait a little while longer so that the experts have a chance to look at the post. If you don't get any advice on the nitrites in a few days, I would post in the water quality forum...but give this post a little while first.

*Kristin*

I agree with Girl. I have recently been cycling a 29G with danios, and IMO, 1.6 nitrites isnt high. I had a spike of 5+ nitrites for about 4 days for some odd reason, and none of my fish died or seemed too stressed out.

I'd just play it by year and hope for the nitrite to fall over time. Good luck Wayne.

I dont recommend water changes through the cycling process as it dilutes the ammonia/nitrites, not giving it a chance to spike and complete the cycling process. The only time I would do water changes is if the fish are looking sick and behaving abnormally. (reddened/fast moving gills, lack of appetite, flicking against gravel/ornaments, have an appearance of gasping at the water surface) At present all that is happening is that your fish are being exposed to nitrite continuosly at low levels. In a fully cycled tank there will be none.
Reduce your feeding to very small amounts once a day and every couple of days and you should see the cycling progress further.

---

Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

From what I had read the nitrites were supposed to go more quickly than amonia, yet the amonia cleared in a week and three weeks later there is no drop in nitrite.

Actually from what I have read (and from my admittedly limited experience), the opposite is true - the nitrites can tend to "plateau".

Example: in a tank I recently cycled, I had ammonia readings for 12 days, and nitrite readings for more than 2 weeks. I know it seems like it's taking forever, but it will drop eventually.

Thanks for the replies. I popped into my LFS at the weekend to get the water tested and for some advise about stocking. I had a long and very useful chat with one of the shop assistants and got some really good advice. He suggested adding realy plants to the aquariam which I have (he even gave me some floating plants). It may be a coincidence but a day after adding the plants (and doing the previous test) the nitrite has gone from 1.6mg/l to 0.3mg/l! The fish seem happier with real plants as well.

In terms of stocking the tank (based on his recommendations and the thoughts of the replies so far) I am thinking of:

6 zebra danios (current)
4-6 ottos (shop assistant thought 6, but I am not convinced the tank will support enough algea)
2 dwarf gouramis (male and female as males can fight)

Wayne

Stocking list sounds good.

The only problem I see is with 4-6 ottos. Only add the ottos when you have existing algae. Most ottos won't eat algae wafers or any other food. They need a constant supply of algae.

When algae appears, I would start with 3 ottos. I think people say you can have 1 otto per 5 gallons of water. So in your 17 gallon tank, you could have 3-4. I wouldn't put anymore than that unless you had an overwhelming amount of algae.

Add them only when ammonia and nitrites are zero and you have existing algae, otherwise, they may not make it.

*Kristin*

Welll.... 48 hours after adding real plants to the tank the nitrite reading is.... zero!!!

I am not sure if you can put it down to the plants or not, other than they may provide a better environment for the nitrifying bacteria (especially the floating ones) than plastic plants.

I will give the tank till the weekend and re-test - if amonia, nitrite and nitrate are still acceptable I will consider the tank cycled... and head off to my LFS!

Wayne

Hi and welcome to FP. I agree with just about everyone's reply but will add my own insight. First, the water changes are whats keeping the nitrites from spiing and the nitrates from coming in. Second, please do research on your stock before you put in. It shows much good sense and judgement to be asking advice here.I do, however have misgivings on the dwarf gouramis. Don't get me wrong, I do like them but feel they need a larger tank size. I kept a pair of males (Females tend to be smaller and much ,ore drab in color so they don't sell well and are therefore hard to find) in a 29 gal where they had they're usual squabbles. Then I had to move them into a 10 gal where they got along very well but, and here's the reason for this reply, water is much more unstable in smaller tanks and dg's are IMO rather unhardy fish e to all sorts of maladies brought on by poor water conditions. In the ten they got fungus, tail and fin roy, dropsy and were always medicated. Once I got them back in the larger tank they fared much better. If you insist on them, and I am not trying to scare you off at all, please be advised they need vary clean and pristine water conitions and a maintenance regimin religiously adhered to will be of great benefit. Good luck with you're tank and once again welcome to FP and the hobby!

Thanks for all the advice I really do appreciate it. I still have not finalised the list for stocking the tank. My initial priority is to get some algea eaters in there.

It is quite confusing for a newcomer to the hobby. My wife bought me a book on fish keeping and it has a list of fish suitable for a starter community tank. It includes dwarf gouramis. Other sources I have seen and research suggest they are not so good for the community tank and can be aggressive.

I have also seen Honey Gourami and they also seem like nice fish. But I think they need to be in a small school. I would consider a Betta if it wasn't for the Zebra Danios as they can be fish nippers (something else the book did not warn about). The Bolivian Rams are still an option, but another source of info suggests that beginners should avoid Rams, and that they like acidic water (our tapwater is a little hard - Ph 7.6-7.7). Hmmm...

Thanks,
Wayne

I have also found this to be true with books: they tell you the "specs" for each fish, but don't give you the real info you need to make decisions about whether that fish will go with other fish, and in what size tank etc. I've found that the only way to find that stuff out, is from others who have actually kept the fish! This is a great place for that.

In response that ottos need algea. If you really want the ottos and don't have algea, you could put a small piece of cucumber in your tank. Mine love cucumbers. I use a plant weight to weigh it down. It will cloud the water for a little while, but it will go away. Hope this helps.

Been to my LFS today and have come home with a lovely female Bristlenose Pleco. I know some of you advised against going for a pleco in a 17g tank - and I am aware I need to watch the nitrates and do regular water changes and gravel cleans. The shop assistant though recommended a pleco above ottos for algea maintanence, and also said they were more hardy than ottos.

Anyhow, she is about 3.5 inches in size (almost full grown according to the shop assistant). They had a male as well but I went for the female as they stay a little smaller and also she was looking very sorry for herself in a tank with nothing but her and a school of amazon tetras. After being added to my tank she spent about an hour attached to a rock (which she blends in very well colourwise). She then, to my surprise, spent the rest of the day moving around the sides of the tank stuffing herself with algea.

Being nocturnal I was expecting her to hide away for the day. I can only assume she has had slim pickings at the LFS and is very hungry.

Hope to get a picture up soon.

Wayne

Sounds like you are off to a good start and your lfs employees know what they are talking about. You guessed correctly, plants do help to lower nitrite levels. The floating ones are the best for it. I wouldn't worry about the pleco causing too much waste, especially with plants in there. If you are going to go with a DG I would reccomend only one as they are known to fight, sometimes even males and females. Also, if you are thinking about neon tetras I would get rid of the danios first, as that tank can only really support one group of schooling fish. Good luck.

Congrats on the BN. I love mine.

Mine loves algae wafers...so if you don't have some already...pick up some. BN's need another food source, instead of just algae. You may also want to try some veggies. I haven't seen mine eat any yet though, but I also haven't tried but a couple.

Mine also likes DW. That's where he spends most of his day. So, you may want to get a nice piece for her.

Good luck!

*Kristin*

Thanks for the advice Girlie. I bought some algea pelets along with the BN, though I might wait a couple of days before trying her on one. She is happy with the algea at the moment (and the plants I noticed this morning! ). I did have some morpani wood in the tank but I took it out after a couple of days cos this strange jelly stuff started to grow on it. I might put it back but I think it needs a good few days of soaking.

She has a simlawood hollow log 'cave' to hide in, but seems more interested in eating the algea on it at the moment! She is surprisingly active during the day, but I guess she hasn't settled in yet.

Wayne