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Ok, so I am new to this site and have several questions about my fish tank.

I inherited a 10 gallon tank from a friend who inherited it from a friend which means that I have kind of been playing it by ear for the past two years that I've had it. I have tried to slowly become more educated and am quite excited about being a fish keeper now but unfortunately I still feel quite novice. Thankfully most of my fish have been fairly hardy.

My tank came fully stocked (actually it came overstocked) and unfortunately some of the fish died. However, when I moved apartments my favorite fish (a "lionhead" died in the move. Now I only have a koi, a regular orange goldfish, and a fish that is like a goldfish but with a split tail and spotted white and orange. So, as for my questions.

1. I am moving to Boston from Utah in a month and want to know what the best way is to transport the fish (I will probably be about 6-7 days en route since I am stopping in VA first)

2. Although I have had the tank for a while I don't have any sort of water testing kit (which from reading some stuff on the forums seems like a mistake) other than some pH paper from the chemistry lab I work in. So, what kit is best to get? or do any of them do the trick?

3. Also, I don't have a heater or a thermometer (which is probably a mistake) but so far my fish haven't had a problem and I have read that goldfish aren't too picky about the temperature. Is that true?

4. When I get to Boston I am planning on starting a 20 gal high tank and was wondering about the following...

* what other fish "work" with my fish (it seems like all of the ones I have read about would be too aggressive for my fish)
* I bought a fairly sturdy TV stand for my fish tank because I couldn't find an "official" fish stand that I liked, but will my new tank be too heavy for it?
* I have a good filter for my new tank and it has a biowheel but recently I have been having some trouble with brown algae and am worried about just using my water from my old tank to start my new one. Is it okay just to use my biowheel and put all new water in then add my fish in one at a time?
* How should I treat the new water that I am adding in?

I have read the "starting up" article but am nervous about killing my fish in the process and just want to make sure I have all of my bases covered. Thanks!

Hi & Welcome to Fp, glad to see a fellow UTAHN in here. Anyways my suggestion is a bit harsh but if you are going to be on the road several hours a day with no electricity it is going to be hard to keep the filtration going in your tank. Also im willing to bet the tank isnt that big amybe a 30-55 gallon which is way too small for goldfish. Believe it or not goldfish, Koi and other cold water speicies require hundreds of gallons to live and thrive. My suggestion to you is to go to a local LFS shop and give the fish away and get new fish when you get out there. You are gonna have to go through a cycle anyways. So there is not point putting your fish through a stressful time.

I have PM's you to find out where you are at so i can reccomend some good LFS in UTAH.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Hey, welcome to the madhouse!

First things first though, you have done exceedingly well to keep that many fish alive in that tank for so long! With the amount of waste they put out and the size that they are biologically programmed to grow to, you'd be overstocked with just one goldfish in there, let alone 2 and a koi! I'm pretty sure that your mystery fish will be another type of goldie, they come in many shapes and sizes.

We'll get back to that later, lets go through the rest

1) Ideally you would just bag and pop them in a dark foam box, but for 7 days, you'll probably need something else. I'm unfamiliar with travel times etc, how many days are you stopping in VA for? Short of having someone to ship them to you when you arrive and set up your new tank, or having someone at the destination to accept and care for them until you arrive, I'm a bit stumped. Only alternative I can think of is a bucket tank that can run in your car, but they are a bit fiddly.

2) First and foremost you need Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Most times you can get by with just those three. pH is a nice one to have too, as it can be fiddled and fussed with should any of the other 3 give you an unfavourable reading.

3)Godfish will live through almost anything. The ones that look more like koi are happy in cooler temperatures, but the ones that look like little eggs with twin tails tend to do better in slightly warmer water. A thermometer might be a good option either way, it is nice to know what temperature you are at for some diseases etc. They are only a dollar or two

4)This is where we hit problems. Truth be told, you might be able to comfortably keep ONE of your current fish in a 20gal, and only if you have some decent filtration. I know that this flies in the face of everything pet shop people say, and what the books tell you, but that is the way it is. They'll survive in small cramped spaces, but it does put extra stress on their bodies and their lifespan is dramatically shortened. That aside, goldfish are big, boofy and have little respect for personal space, making them difficult to keep with other types of fish. They also have different water requirements to most things. Really, if you know someone with a pond, pop them in there and let them acclimatise a bit before winter sets in. That sort of space will be much better for them.

A 20 gal is on the outside of what I would be trying to hold up on standard furniture. Is it solid wood or laminate? Is the tank under warranty?

If it is the brown algae that grows on glass etc and isn't fluffy or anything, and just looks a bit like rust, that is fine. Google "diatom algae" and check that it is the same. It is more to do with the excess waste that the fish are putting out than anything, and will most likely come in your new tank anyway, as it is quite common in new setups. Don't worry about using the same water from your old tank, but do consider using the old filter, the old filter pads, the gravel, and any ornaments. Even if it is just temporary, it'll give you some bacteria that will help with keeping your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate safe. Give the gravel and filter pads a good rinse in the old tank water before you move them over to get rid of the larger particles of waste, and dose the new tank with BioSpira or Nitravec or something to give it a boost Add the new filter too, it'll seed off the old stuff.
Make sure that you don't wash the old stuff with tap water, or let it dry out. You need to keep that bacteria alive, otherwise there isn't any point

You are doing all the right things, I think your fish are in good hands

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Honestly I think you should restart in Boston. You'll solve a number of problems, the biggest being the fact that koi just cannot live in a tank. They really do need ponds of 1,000 gallons or larger to truly be healthy. Goldfish need about 100 gallons.

That being said, I can understand about doing your best to keep the fish alive. I rescued a number of goldfish from my boss (eventually putting a stock tank in my living room!). I happend to get very lucky in that when I sold my car before moving to Oz the organization I sold the car to actually had a goldfish pond that could take them! Look around at botanical gardens, large bed and breakfasts or historical buildings in the area. One of them may have a pond that can handle large fish. Schools, libraries and universities also may have ponds.

Saying goodbye to the fishies before leaving ensures that they won't have to go through the stress of the move and you won't have to go through the additional stress of moving them! We just moved Three large tanks worth of fish and it wasn't an amusing operation to say the least!

Once you're settled and ready to set up the tanks again I'd suggest a long tank rather than a tall tank as more surface area means a better quality of life for the fish. The are exchanged at the surface (this is why people use airstones to 'increase' the surface area thereby oxygenating the tank).

As for the stand, the guideline for tanks is that it's 10lbs/gallon. 10 gallon tank weighs 100 lbs ect. Water weighs a little less than 10lbs however you need to take into account the wieght of the glass, substrate, decor ect.

By starting over again in Boston you're best bet will be to do a fishless cycle or use some hardy fish that you'd use to stock the tank with anyway. These include white cloud mountain minnows or zebra danios. Once the tank is cycled you can start increasing the size of your stock as the tank allows keeping in mind adult sizes and temperments.

As has been said, that long of a time without active filtration and you can pretty much say goodbye to most of your bacterial colonies. Additionally the Ph of your water will possibly be different. Heaters are not an absolute must for goldfish in larger tanks. The problems goldfish run into with temperature is the same issue any fish has with temperature and that is fluctuations. Sudden drops in temp will cause a lot of stress on fish. Small tanks will fluctuate more than larger (55 gallons and up) tanks. A good quality submersible heater and a $2 glass thermometer will just ensure that the tank maintains a steady temp between day and night. Tank lights, room temp and sunlight can all cause a tanks temp to fluctuate.

Having just gone through a fish move myself I really do suggest finding a good home for the ones you have and picking ones that are appropriate for your sized tank once you get to boston.


Edit: I've just realized that we've all said quite a bit, hopefully we havent been too confusing! Feel free to ask any questions we may not have helped with enough, and btw welcome to the site !


^_^

Thank you so much for all of the advice. It is definitely helpful. I have also been doing a lot of other reading and have a few more questions.

1. I did check the maximum weight that my stand could hold and 20 gallons will be too much for it. So, I've been looking at stands online but my problem is that my 20 gallon has the footprint of a 10 gallon. I am thinking of getting a metal stand but is it dangerous to get one that will fit it that I am assuming is made for a 10 gal? I read that metal stands are sturdy though. Anyway, I am just all conflicted and could use some advice.

2. Why exactly is it that goldfish need so much space? Is is just because they are usually so dirty (I just use a filter for a tank about twice the size)? And do all of them need that much space? Mine are about 7 years old and have always been pretty healthy. For now there is no way that I can get a bigger tank but I really love my goldfish. What are some good 20 gallon tank setups for a goldfish lover with limited space?

3. In order to make sure that my water has enough oxygen (since I have a tall tank) do I just need to get good air rocks?

Ok, so I just thought another question...

I am looking at testing kits and was wondering if there is a certain range I should make sure the kits cover (nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia).

Sorry I cant really help with the stand issue, hopefully someone else will be able to weigh (no pun intended!) in on the issue. Of the stands we have one was made by hubbys father from what looks like 2"xx4"s, although I do know a hard wood was used.

As for the goldfish issue. This is bruce, he's not mine but from my understanding this was when he was 5 or 6 years old. He's still alive and no, they aren't kids hands:



It's true that any fish will only 'grow as large as their tank' but that retardation of growth caused by a small tank and poor water quality (often due to a smaller tank) is only slowing growth on the outsides. Their guts still try and grow but end up crushing into each other. Many goldfish tend to develop swim bladder issues which makes it very difficult for them to swim properly.
Additionally comets (the 2cent feeders) are much more like the carp that they are than some of the fancy goldfish. Carp are active fish. They eat a lot and they also... well... make a lot of waste. It's somewhat like keeping a 5yo on a sugar high in a closet. Yes it can be done but it's not the best for them. This is why I'm urging you to try and find a good home for them. I know what it's like goldfish are just great! But it hurt me to have mine stuck in a 3' pond when I knew they needed better.

What to get instead? Well that's easy! IMO gold barbs are the perfect replacement. They're similar in color and activity patterns and would do well in that sized tank, although being a tall it'll be a little small still.

The airstones would help. A bubble wall or wand would spread the agitation even more allowing for more water circulation and create more bubbles especially with a strong airpump. A quick fix that can sometimes help is to lower the water level a small ammount allowing for more splash from the outflow of a filter.

Test kits....AFAIK the aquarium pharmecuticals master kit now comes with NitrAte. You'll want ammonia, nitrIte for sure, then nitrAte, ph will be useful but you may be able to trust your LFS to do a test on that once you get to boston. It's best not to alter your Ph, having one on hand can alert you to possible tank crashes before they happen. You should be able to get by with just a basic ph rather than the wide range.

^_^

Hi,
This test kit would be ideal for you:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4454&N=2004+114130

Nearly every LFS in the nation carries them.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

thanks again for all of the great advice!