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Well, my 5 yr old insisted on an aquarium, his 3 yr old betta passed awhile back and a simple bowl just wouldn't do. So, we went to a local pet store and the girl there was really helpful about getting us set up with a beginner's kit. She seems to know her stuff, and much of what she said jived with most of what I have read online about freshwater set-up and maintenance.

We brought the kit home, set everything up, got the filter running no prob, heater, thermometer, etc. I added the proper amounts of conditioner and bio-stuff they sold with the kit. She told me we could come back tonite and grab some fish to begin stocking. So, after 5 calls from my son over the course of the day at work, we ran down there and grabbed some rocks, plastic plants, etc for the new tank and he decided that he wanted Tiger Barbs, which from what I read will do well as we cycle the tank. So we got 4 Tiger Barbs, floated the bag, got them acclimated and off we go!

If anyone has any suggestions about cycling the tank or anything else, I am open to good, accurate information.

Thanks, we're really looking forward to getting into our new hobby!

Scott in Ohio

Fishless cycling is a better way to go but too late now. http://fishprofiles.com/articles/article.aspx?id=31

What size tank is it? Most stores try to sell beginners 10g tank kits and then a ton of fish to go with them. Tiger barbs are one of the schooling fish which prefer a group of 6 plus. Hardly any of the schooling fish fit well in a 10g or smaller for that reason and if you want schooling fish or multiple species(community setup) in one tank your best going with at least a 20 long. Tiger barbs are also one of the most notorious fin nippers. Keeping them in too few numbers or too small of tank can lead to lots of destruction and death. Do not add anything with long fins or the barbs will tear them up.

If you can get ahold of gravel or filter media from an established tank it will speed up your cycling by alot. Occasionally you can even cut the cycle out completely by seeding it from another tank and stocking slowly. Otherwise just test ammonia and nitrite frequently and do water changes if necessary. Make sure you have a good liquid test kit like aquarium pharmaceuticals and not those junky test strips.

She did advise against the 10 gal tank due to difficulty in maintaining the proper water chemisty and temp with any consistency. So, we went with a 20 gallon tank. We got 4 barbs, plan to get a couple more once we can add more fish, after the tank cycles through. I did read alot about the various types of fish and what are compantible with what, so forth..

I do plan to monitor the water regularly but I bought the test strips, I hope that's alright...

Thanks for your insight!

You might want to rethink the tiger barbs. At a size edging up to a possible 3", you'll be pushing stocking limits on a 20 gallon just with a proper school of barbs. (3" x minimum of 6 fish = 18" of adult fish) Also, tiger barbs are a very active fish. They're also very nippy and any less active (or less aggressive) fish might prove to be swiss cheese after being in close quarters with a school of hyper-active barbs.

As for the "bio-stuff" you mention... are you speaking of bio-spira? In that case, you're effectively cycled. I wouldn't add anything until the tank settles in, but you'll have put in the "good bacteria" that a tank needs and by adding the fish, you've created "food" for the bacteria. Give it time for the bacteria to get a foothold, then go from there. If I'm not mistaken, there should be some indication of a time period on the packaging. It's been a few years since I've used it, so I don't remember.

I'd really rethink the barbs. I know it's hard with a young child who might not understand, but I'm not sure that you really want a single-species tank here... sounds like you want a community and I don't think you can feasibly do that with tigers in a 20.

In all honesty, I've never kept tiger barbs, but the above reasons are why I've never done so... my biggest tank has been a 20 gallon long up until this point, and tigers really never fit in with the other fish that I've kept. In other words, take my words with a grain of salt and I hope someone with more actual experience with these fish can add more info.

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Even the most effective biologiocal cycling chemicals available only drop the cycle time from around 21- to 28 days to 14 days plus in my experience, and while tiger barbs are pretty tough, and not a bad choice for a beginner fish, theyre no betta or danio, and you might get some cycling issues with ammonia and particularly nitrite.

I agree with the others here too, and while barbs have their fans ,I think a single species tank of barbs would be quite tedious, they have a really predictable range of behaviour, at least half of which is arguing, and to some extent, fin-nipping.

Having kept several hundred species of fish in my time, I tend to think they have some of the least interesting looks and behaviour you can get of any fish apart from maybe the most boring of the danios and the most plain of the tetras.

Its much nicer to have a layered community that utilises all of the tank. TBH I kept tiger barbs for years, and when they did finally expire I was glad to have the tankspace back to be able to use it for other fish. A more varied community will teach him more about the hobby too, it could even be educational.

Even now you could take the fish back, feed the tank and get it into tip top water quality by using pure ammonia daily,without ever risking the life of a fish, and then stock it with small tetras, apisto's, amano shrimp,and small gouramis, which would be much more fun to watch and keep the tank and the plants in nice condition.

Strips are very inaccurate. Sometimes to the point of being completely worthless. They are always wrong on the ph, hardness, and nitrates. Then they are sometimes several ppm off on ammonia and nitrites. It's well worth the money to get a good liquid kit. Aquarium pharm is the best for the money. It's more than accurate enough for most aquarists without costing a whole lot. A master kit with 2 different range of ph tests, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate is under $30 and available at most fish or petstores. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4454&N=2004+114130
Mine lasted 2 years and setting up 4 tanks before I had to start buying new bottles. Somewhere around 5 years later I still have the original nitrite test it came with and I just ran out of the ph test. The tests do become inaccurate after awhile but will usually last years whereas test strips have sometimes used up their lifespan before you even buy them. They are sensitive to temperature, light, and moisture. They get ruined far too easily to trust.

Thanks to all for the helpful replies... I was wondering about the size issue, seeing that these lil fellas can get up to 6". I suppose we'll see what happens. I have been testing daily and so far the ammonia is around .25 the nitrates and nitrites have been fine per the charts. The pH seems high (8.2-8.4) to me so I bought some pH minus and pH plus, and added a dose of pH minus to try to bring that down a little bit. I see where we need to be gradual on our adjustments so I will take care with that.

The "bio-stuff" I spoke of came with the starter kit, made by the pet store (Jacks Pet Shop, a regional chain in Ohio). I added it per the directions whenI set the tank up, along with the water conditioner that came with the kit as well. The pet store gal seemed quite confident that things would be just fine as long as I followed directions, which I am definitely doing, lol.

I do have a question... how do you lower the temp of the water? Mine is sitting at 80-81. I have the heater set to where the pilot lite is off, and a bit of a turn past when it shuts off. CanI add cooler water to accomplish a temp drop? Do I add conditioner or "bio-stuff" when I do it?

Thanks,

ScottPS- Sham, I will look for the liquid test stuff next time I am out, I want to be accurate!

Do not use ph adjusting chemicals. They are temporary and will cause large ph fluctuations. The chemical drops the ph within the first half hour and then sometimes no more than a few hours but at best a couple days later it starts to go up again. Fish can adjust to a ph that is slightly too high or too low but they will die very quickly if the ph changes too much or frequently. Better to just get fish that like a high ph or at least don't mind it. Most fish sold at local stores will adjust to a ph slightly above 8. The stores that sell the fish also very rarely add anything to their water to adjust ph. My water is pretty consistently above 8.4 and I've had no trouble keeping most fish. Ph is only really important if you want to breed the fish or are getting wild caught fish directly from very soft acidic waters.

Same with the temperature. Adding cooler water will only drop the temp for a short time and very quickly. The fish are more likely to survive a high temp than a sudden change in temperature. Fish cannot handle quick changes only gradual ones. If the water is too hot turn the heater down a little but it won't do any good if the room is warm. The tanks will often be a couple degrees warmer than the room. You probably also got a cheap heater with the tank that won't be very accurate. It's usually well worth the money to get a heater with numbers on the dial and one of the main reasons I don't like kits. The parts are too cheap.

Again, excellent, thanks! I can see I am making some "rookie" slight mistakes here, but nothing too horrific, lol so, that's good!

Scott so long as you don't dump Draino into the tank you're doing pretty good .

The tigers will do okay in the 20 gallon but they are very active fish and would do even better in a 55. Luckily they shouldnt get too cramped in the 20 so the tank size is not a huge concern right now.

I agree on leaving PH and temp alone. Might try leaving the tank lights off those often heat up the tank, even a florescent will add heat, incandecent or halogen of course are the worst ones. Since it's plastic plants leaving the lights off most of the day is fine. Add an airstone to increase surface area and thereby increasing oxygenation of the water. If you cant get an airstone into the tank try dropping the water level by half an inch to do the same thing.

Good to see your son is taking an active interest, give it a month or so and you might be ready to do that tank upgrade . A 55 with the tiger barbs from the 20 would look great, you'll be able to increase the school to a good size and expand the stock.

Then we can work out a new stock for the 20, my favorite are White Cloud Mountain Minnows, and or gold barbs.

^_^

Babel-

Actually, I had been thinking that a second, larger tank would be a blast (yes, all of a sudden I am getting hooked! (ok, poor choice of words, lol) But, we'll take baby steps for now and get this tank under control. Besides, my wife would probably make me live in the new tank if I tried to upgrade in the near future... But, there is my office... hmmmm!!!

:-) Thanks

Also, looking for some ideas for stocking once we get established. We have the 4 tiger barbs in there now and would like to get a little variety going, realizing that we're looking at 12" of fish already once the barbs grow up... I love some of the tetras, especially the neons, albino glo-light and the serpae tetra. So, I am open to suggestions for additional stocking for a beginner's 20 gal tank...

Thanks,
Scott

If you stick with the tiger barbs you will probably only be able to have tiger barbs. A 20 is too small for 2 different sets of schooling fish anyway so you can only pick 1. Then with less nippy fish you could add things like small gouramis, bettas, small cichlids, livebearers(males only), or various bottom feeders. With the tiger barbs anything with long fins or that is slow moving is a potential target and they will likely tear up pretty much everything I listed. I would not add any mid-surface fish to a 20g with tiger barbs. You could possibly add some bottom feeders like kuhli loaches(social get at least 3-4) or a very small pleco like 1 or 2 clown plecos(require driftwood) but the tank may end up well stocked and require frequent maintenance. Nearly all other loaches are too active or too large for a 20g and most commonly sold plecos are too large or too messy for that setup. Research pleco size carefully if you decide to add one to a tank that small.

Yeah TB's are pretty difficult to find tank mates for. There were some in a 30 gallon tank that I rescued from someone that had no! idea what they were doing. They had one green tigerbarb and one regular tiger barb. After I'd moved fish and tank and cleaned everything up some so that they werent' swimming in muck, they were able to see each other and the regular one tore a hole in the the green ones tummy.

Here's what I'd suggest. Keep the 20 perfect. Scrub the algae, have the son help, maintain water quality. Have NO deaths, watch the fishies together. Make sure you include wife in funny fish antic watching....oh and if she has houseplants or a garden suggest that the water from doing water changes go there, makes for a great free fertilizer.
Also keep an eye in local papers ect, watch the stores for sales, sometimes you won't have to pay full price for stand and tank (they're usually the single most expensive purchases when it comes to larger tanks).

Once the 20 is fully cycled you just might have the wife on your side when it comes to tanks . I guess I'm lucky that I married someone that likes tanks too .

Sham's very right, pleco sizes need to be researched carefully. They're one of the many fish that don't follow the inch per gallon rule (which is why many of us here don't like it). My sister is having to run around because someone at her work went and bought a pleco and a gourami for the work tank even after she and I told them that the only thing that will fit in a 5g tall was a betta .

^_^

I agree with the pleco thing
I've never kept green tigers, but my normal ones had a tank to themselves besides a small pleco[who soon went in a bigger tank.]

Yup. I'm that crazy Twilight/animal/music girl

Thank you all so much for the suggestions. I had been planning on putting my feelers out for freebie tanks and I have a few people keeping an eye out for me. I am a little bummed about not putting much else in with the 4 Tiger Barbs we have now. I had been hoping for at least one other species... We'll see what happens. For now, I am just focussing on what we have going, and keeping them alive. So far, so good!

What about a red-tail black shark to go with my barbs. It says in their profile not to include them with smaller, weaker fish. But, the Barbs are just as fiesty so it would seem. Maybe one of those sharks and a cory.

From what i've heard, any shark is way to territorial for a 20.

I've read what you guys have written about Plecos but I guess I don't understand what you mean by "messy". Could you elaborate? I'm just wondering. I will be stocking a 75g tank, hopefully soon.

Thanks.