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Hello!

I've been away for sometime, but still active within the hobby... still has a hold on me! Hope everyone's doing great, and their fish too

My first planted 20 gal is still doing nicely since I set it up at the end of Dec 2004. My other 10 gal did horribly! The algae I had covered everything like a blanket. I'd clean everything off by hand, do a small water change, and in a matter of a few days the slimmy algae would be back at it. Eventually all the plants died and just made a mess, so I shut it down. But with no loss of fish life

Now I've started it up again today, with no plan yet of it's future tenants. It's on it's stand, full of treated tap water with fine/medium substrate, a couple small pieces of driftwood (that I used the first time around), being heated (24C), and has it's new Penguin 100 running. No fish yet though.

I have a bottle of Cycle that doesn't expire until late next year. So I'll be dosing with that to help things move along quicker. And with my already cycled 20, taking some gravel and adding it to the 10's HOB filter would be a good way to help seed it right?

I still see my Cory's flashing off the gravel though, that's never gone away since I first noticed a while back. And some other fish will flick themselves off plants, or other ornaments. Makes me wonder if there's a parasite in my already established tank.

Would it be a good idea to try seeding it this way? I'd like to take some live plants from my 20, but that may introduce whatever it is into my new tank!

So here I am. Any ideas please?

FOTB

The Cycle and "used" gravel will both help to get the new tank moving. A stocking or mesh sack would be a fine container for the gravel, which can be set in either the tank or the inside of the filter. Just remember that neither the bacterial additive or the gravel will be helpful until there are fish in the tank.

As for the fish flashing, does it seem like they do it just during certain times of the day? Some fish will flick to help dislodge food which has gotten stuck in a gill cover. Cory catfish are noted to do this fairly often.

If you don't think food is the culprit, then a parasite is possible. Have you tried a regimen of more frequent, larger water changes to see how that affects the fish? Often an improvement in water quality will relieve enough stress on the fish so that they can effectively fight an infection on their own.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Thanks sirbooks,

As for the fish flashing, does it seem like they do it just during certain times of the day?

No not really a certain time of day. Actually, I was just watching my trilineatus Cory's and one started flashing. The fish hadn't been fed yet. And I notice that my Tri's seem to have more barbell erosion than my other paleatus, which the two I have are nice a long.


Just remember that neither the bacterial additive or the gravel will be helpful until there are fish in the tank.

Lastnight I added a small pinch of flaked food to the new tank figuring that it should help to add some ammonia once it starts breaking down, and was going to add some Cycle this afternoon.

I've forgotten how it go's, but should I wait a few days before adding a couple small fish to a new setup? I've heard 24 hours, 3 days, 7 days. From my 20 I have 5 trilineatus and 2 paleatus Cory's, 2 Neon Rainbows, 2 Kribs, 2 female Guppies, and 4 Otto's. Could I add the two Guppies to help start the cycle?


If you don't think food is the culprit, then a parasite is possible. Have you tried a regimen of more frequent, larger water changes to see how that affects the fish?

I'm on a once a month water change regimen of about 35%. It use to be twice a month but noticed I had more algae.

FOTB

The water changes wouldn't be causing algae, the lack of water changes would be a good culprit there. Also too much light, or light left on too long (over 12 hrs) overfeeding and lack/excess of certain nutrients cause algae to get out of control. 25% to 50% is the recommended water change on a weekly-bi-weekly basis. The guppies could move into the tank in about 2 days after set-up with the seeding you've done. Usually after the bubbles have gone from the sides. Feed lightly during cycling, only do a water change if the fish start to look ill, no gravel cleaning until the cycle is completely finished. Test the ammonia, nitrite, pH regularly, after nitrites start showing up test nitrates as well. The cycle will be over when the readings are: ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 5 or more. During cycling, keeping the pH lower, around 7 will help to protect the fish from ammonia poisoning, ammonia becomes ammonium and is less toxic. It will still show-up in the test though as ammonia. Good luck!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Gotcha! and thanks for your input

If I'm going to add some gravel from my established tank, would a small fish tank net-full resting on the bottom of the 10 be good enough? I don't really have any other netting, would cheese cloth do? I think my fiance has a stocking I could borrow... lol. On another site I read that ornaments and plants from the donor tank will do as well, any thoughts?

I haven't added the Cycle yet as there is nothing to help them get established, and I'm not sure if that pinch of food I added last night would be enough, if it's even started breaking down yet. And that ring around the tank effect with the tiny bubbles you mentioned, there all gone from the glass.

FOTB

You could set the fish net on the bottom, but it might be a bit of a hassle. You could probably get the same effect by opening up the top of your filter and letting the netted gravel rest in the water there. This way there isn't as much of a chance of gravel spillage into the tank (this only applies if the two tanks have different size or color gravel- it drives me nuts when I get gravel from two setups mixed together) and the net can be placed and removed without getting your hands wet.

Decorations might help bacterial growth a bit, but the gravel would be a lot more useful. It's up to you. Live plants will aid in nitrogen uptake, so they can reduce the effect of the cycle in a tank. However, it would be best to just buy any new plants you had your eye on instead of moving plants from the other tank. This way you get what you were already going to buy, and the existing greenery doesn't have to get moved around. Some plants hate being moved.

You can add the fish whenever you think you're ready. As long as the equipment is all working well and the water has been heated to the desired temp, you should be good to go. Dose the Cycle and add the gravel once the fish are placed in the new tank, as they (and possibly that flake food, though you won't need to add more of it) will provide ammonia to get the bacterial colonies going.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

I hear ya, don't want the black gravel mixed in with the lighter stuff. I'll try the net into the filter method like you mentioned. The net is a fine material and deep enough so there won't be any gravel falling out. Should I just leave it in there for a day? Seems like plenty of time for the bacteria to drop off into their new home.

Had an idea? How about scooping some of the new tanks gravel into a fish net, placing it the donor tanks HOB filter overnight, then dump it back into the 10 gal tank around noon the next day with the two Guppies? That will give the bacteria 12 hours or so to latch on.

The lighting in the 10 is from two 15W Philips Marathon fluorescent spiral bulbs which I bought from HD. I can't remember what the K temperature is, although they are a daylight bulb. That's 3 WPG, and could have been why I had the crazy algae before.

If I have time I'll take a trip to my LFS to check out some plants. Something that stays small.

Here's a couple pics of both tanks. I know how we all like pictures!


The new 10 gal
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/JEG499/10gal.jpg

Already established 20 gal
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/JEG499/20gal.jpg

Thanks again sirbooks

FOTB

I think it might take a week for the bacteria to reproduce enough to be of any use in the new HOB. It is a great idea but I would leave it in for at least a week. Add the cycle as usual then put it back in the other tank. The bacteria won't actually leave the gravel, they reproduce and the new ones will inhabit the filter. I seeded my 10g with the filter media, ornaments and plants from my 25g as I had been stuffing them in for months before for just that purpose. It will still take a couple weeks for the cycle to complete, it will just be easier on the fish as some of the final bacteria that produce nitrate are already present at start-up. Do add fish as soon as the temp is stable, the pinch of food may not be enough for the bacteria to keep going.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

What I ended up doing was just scooping up a good handful of gravel in a fish net from the already cycled tank and leaving it to rest on the 10's gravel. There was only about 3/4 of an inch of room between the filter cartridge and the back housing of the filter... pretty tight fit to add gravel!

The temp isn't stable yet in the aquarium. It's an 8 month old 50W Jager, still like new. We're having some problems with our house heating right now so it's not helping. Came down this morning and the house temp for the ground floor was 55F! tanks temp was about 73F. I have the heater set to 75F and the heaters been trying for the past few hours to get up there. The wall that the tank is against is an exterior wall, and a little cold to the touch. So I'm thinking of buying a flat piece of foam (about 1 inch thick) and sticking it to the back to help keep the cold off the glass.

Thanks

FOTB

Good idea! I was thinking about doing the same thing with mine, we have the same problem with the house temp not being stable. I will probably paint mine and use the styrofoam as a background, I haven't decided on a colour yet.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus