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I need some suggestions so that I set up my new 29 gallon tank safely! I have a 20 gallon tank that has an over sized gold fish (he was a feeder fish that just kept growing!), two kuhli loaches, a couple tetras (not sure which kind, they are white), and an orange dwarf gourami. I plan on moving the mismatched fish family to my 29 gallon tank, and possibly adding some more fish. Here are my questions:

The 29 gallon tank is filled 2/3rds full with fresh water. I've added about 20 cup fulls of dirty water from my frog tank and beta bowls, plus two filthy plants from the frog tank, and a recently perished snail from the frog's tank. (A handicapped boy I home school accidentally "helped" by feeding the frogs half a can of food one day when I was in the other room. The poor froggies were so bloated, but they recovered. Unfortunately the snail died before I even realized what'd happened.) So there is ample bacteria floating around in the new tank set up. I tossed in some frog food and fish flakes so the bacteria will have something else in the mix to eat. If I fill the other third of the tank with dirty tank water from the 20 gallon tank and some gravel, will it be safe for the fish right away, or will it have to cycle?

Another question--what other fish would you suggest putting in once the current fish are transferred and settled? I would like something colorful and eye catching that my baby can enjoy watching. (My cats enjoy watching too. ) I was thinking about adding some hermit crabs to the bottom, but I'm unsure how they will get along with other fish. I also used to have some African Dwarf Frogs that I really enjoyed, they are a possibility for the new tank as well.

How many fishies/frogs/crabs can a 29 gallon tank support? I don't want to overload it. I have a good filter with a bio wheel, so filtration isn't a problem.

Sorry, for a first post this was kind of long. Any advice and suggestions are appreciated!

First off, welcome to fish profiles

Second, you know that goldfish doesn't belong in a tropical environment, so it is wise to re-house him in a larger tank better suited for his coldwater, vegetarian needs.

As for cycling, adding water alone isn't enough for a sufficient amount of beneficial bacteria to be transferred. While there are some bacteria in water, it's minimal. You're doing right to add gravel from your established tank, as there is a much higher concentration here to promote propogation.

While setting up your new 29 and putting in food for your bacteria is good, i'm afraid it might not be enough once you rehouse your fish. It would be great if you could put your old 20g filter on the 29 as well for at least two weeks for an even better chance of avoiding a devestating cycle.

Also comes the issue of stocking. Volume of water really doesn't have much to do with stocking, it's more about surface area and how much there is to contact with the atmosphere, promoting exchange of gasses. Oxygen in, CO2 out. So it would be my suggestion to not add more stock until you can get that goldfish out. They get way too large for your tank and frankly aren't suited for it, sorry

You're on the right track though!

Hi there! I am not entirely sure, but i think that hermit crabs arent meant for freshwater, and under water tanks......Youd be best off leaving that off the list. Anyway, he will probably try to hurt one of the fish.

When you say a couple of tetras, do you mean 2 or do your mean more? Tetras need a group of 6 or larger. If i were you, i would put the feeder GoldFish into a makeshift pond, until you at least get him a larger tank, 40gal bare minimum, with 10gal for every GoldFish. That would be the rule of thumb.

Now, there is also a large disscussion on wether frogs are good to be in aquariums, or not. One side says that they cannot live together, for risk and fear of disease and bacterial problems. The opposing side says that since they are living together in the wild, they are acclimated to each otherm and are A-OK to be fit in together. I would just give them a tank for themselves. That would be me on the 1st side.

If it is a stantard 29gal, then you could probably fit about.....

-1 school of your tetra, about 6+
-The DG
-The loaches
-4-5 ottos

Thats about it if you dont have plants. With a densley planted aquarium, which is impossible with the gold fish, you could fit.....

The above stocking,
-1x Male Swordtail
-2x Female swordtails
-2x Platies

Or, you could get.....

None of the above stocking
2x angelfish
5x ottos
1x School of the tetras

____________________________________________________________________________________

Now, the bacteria in the dirty tank water might not be the bacteria you were looking for. You would want the Nitrifying bacteria, or the aerobic bacteria. These are tha bacteria which convert the ammonia to nitrItes, and then to nitrAtes. Also, the gravel will help a lot, but all the bacteria will die iff there is no circulation. The Dirty tank water will have a lot of nitrAtes in there. The dead snail will rot, and smell in there......... The plants will help A LOT! They will absorb some Nitrates, ammonia, and other nutrient in there. For cycling, i reccomend the Cycle brand of products, and the Bio-Spira brand. These will umpstart and speed up the cycle. Check for ammonia and nitrIte levels, and if they measure 0, than your tank has officially cycled. Now that you added the fish food, you have to wait a couple of weeks to decompose and turn into the ammonia you want. Use the ammonia droplet method. This is where you add pure ammonia to cycle that tank. Good luck, and move the Goldie to a pons or whatever, dont make it, and you suffer!

Welcome to FP,
GobyFan2007

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I agree with Goby.

Yup. I'm that crazy Twilight/animal/music girl

Thanks for the advice! I am thinking about releasing my poor over grown goldfish into a local lake--it's full of other goldfish, and ducks too, and people flock there to feed them in summer. Do you think he'll survive ok in there? I've had him for five years, I'm a little attached.

Last night I filled the tank to the top (the last 3rd) with water from my clawed frogs, and I set up the filter from the 20 gallon tank in the new 29 gallon tank and I started it running. When I woke up this morning the water was cloudy! That means it's beginning to cycle, right? I found a great local fish store run by a fish biologist--I'm going to go there this afternoon in search of bio-spira (do you think I still need it?) and see what kinds of fish they have. (For future reference only, I won't buy any for awhile.)

The little plants I put in there are only plastic plants, but I would love to have some real ones. GobyFan, are you saying that if I stock it well with live plants the tank can support more fish? The tank only has a screen lid, not a hood with a light. I'm too poor to drop $45 on a hood right now. But there is more than enough natural light flowing in. We have a huge picture window on one wall, and the back door has a huge window on the opposite wall, plus there is a kitchen window. The tank is against the adjoining wall in the middle. That should be sufficient for plants shouldn't it? It's fine for my non-aquatic plants that are sitting on the table next to the tank, and it seems to be good enough light to grow annoying algae in my frog tank and betta bowls. What are some easy to grow, not too expensive, hardy plants I could stock it with?

When I mentioned hermit crabs in my first post, I wasn't thinking of the land kind! I wouldn't drown the poor little guys. I may be slightly aquarium ignorant, but not to that extreme! I saw some underwater crabs in shells at the pet store recently, that's what I was referring to. I don't know what they are called?

I understand about the frogs being hit or miss in with fish. I used to have two dwarf frogs in the 20 gallon tank, and they lived for 6 years. Nothing ever went wrong bacteria-wise or in any other way. But any fish (except the giant goldfish) that go in with the clawed frogs I currently have get eaten or maimed, or they get sick from the frog slime. After losing several fish I just gave up and resigned myself to the fact that clawed frogs are little monsters and they are destined to live alone. They seem to never stop growing, they are worse than that goldfish! I didn't realize how big they got 4 years ago when I bought them, so they've been crowded into a 10 gallon tank. Once everything in the 29 gallon is set up, the frogs are moving to the 20 gallon--it's a long shallow reptile sized tank. I think they'll be a lot better off in there...

I forgot to add, the tetras I have in the 20 gallon tank--there are only two left. And I left the male and female swordtails out of the mix, there are just the two of those. I've had that male swordtail for six years now, he's a hardy little guy. They've never made any babies. Does that mean anything?

OK, adding water from your other tanks will only provide food for the bacteria to feed on, not actual bacteria. The beneficial bacteria needed will grow and colonize on its own, or you can 'seed' the tank. Bacteria grows and lives on the gravel, and decorations and your filter media, it is not free swimming in your water. By taking the filter from your 20g you will be providing a little bacteria, but much much more by taking some of the gravel and putting that in.
What happens during the cycling process is that organic waste (fish poo, dead and decomposing fish etc)breaks down and provide a source of ammonia, toxic to fish. Then a beneficial bacteria grows and colonizes and consumes the ammonia leaving nitrites, less toxic to fish but still toxic. Then a different bacteria grows and colonizes and consumes the nitrites leaving nitrates, which are even less toxic, but still toxic. These nitrates are what we control with partial water changes.
By putting the gravel in from the 20 you will provide some needed bacteria but still will need to cycle. However, it will happen at a very fast pace since ther bacteria is already there. I once cycled my 10g in just a few days by doing just that, adding a lot of gravel from an existing tank and 5 gallons from a water change on my 29g. Yes, I did test the parameters every day for weeks. Still, keep an eye on the levels, btw do you have a test kit?. A good lfs will/should test it if you bring in a sample.
It may be possible to add a few fish within a few days, just add them slowly to give the tank time to catch up to the heavier bio load.
You should definitely relocate the goldfish. They belong to the carp family, I believe and will grow to immense proportions if let be in a large enough environment.
Oh, welcome to FP, you've come to the right place, and good luck with your tanks!

Hi again! I have never seen a FW hermit crab. Hmmm..........Maybe a fiddler crab, but nothing more than that.

The white cloudiness is the sign of the bacterial bloom, often marked as the begginning of the cycle. I still reccomend the Bio-Spira, as this will 'seed' the tank, as Divertran said. The Bio-Spira can be found in the refrigerated section of the LFS. This contains actual live bacteria that will help start the cycle, and quicken it up. I have never used this product, but it is probably the most efficent way to fishless cycle a tank. At least i think so.

GobyFan, are you saying that if I stock it well with live plants the tank can support more fish?

Well, yes in a way, because it will stretch the boundary of the norm plantless tank. But in truth, you should still understock. The afforementioned fish stocking should be fine, as long as all isnt added at once. It will also make maintenence easier. It will absorb the nutrients and nitrAtes in the tank, and in turn reducing stress on a fish. Also, if you heavily plant it, the cycle will be faster because the mature plants will have ample aerobic bacteria. But, without a light, you wont ba able to grow these plants, which brings us to the next subject.....

The tank only has a screen lid, not a hood with a light. I'm too poor to drop $45 on a hood right now. But there is more than enough natural light flowing in. We have a huge picture window on one wall, and the back door has a huge window on the opposite wall, plus there is a kitchen window. The tank is against the adjoining wall in the middle. That should be sufficient for plants shouldn't it? It's fine for my non-aquatic plants that are sitting on the table next to the tank, and it seems to be good enough light to grow annoying algae in my frog tank and betta bowls. What are some easy to grow, not too expensive, hardy plants I could stock it with?

The natural light may suffice, but to be sure, you should get a light and a proper hood. You could have either a proper hood, which often sells at 20-30 dollars that also includes a light. Or, you could have the screen, and put a Desktop light with 2 screw-in flourescents. Just be sure to get the daylight reading.
That will leave you a choice of only a few plants. The best choice for you would be the following list;

-Any type of anubias. These are the hardiest plants, and one of the slowest growers. These cant/shouldnt be put in gravel. These will attach themselves to a rock or some DW.

-Cryptocornes. These will most likely die when planted in the tank, but will recover and spread throughout the tank.

-Java Fern. This is my favorite plant, because it grows medium-slow, will quickly attach to a rock or DW, dosent need much in the way of nutrients, and dosent need to be planted in gravel.

-Vallisneria, Maybe. These grow tall, and will have leaves that bend in the top of the tank.

-Any Wal-Mart or Hybrid Aponogeton crispus or Aponogeton Ulvaceus bulbs. These need to be planted in a prefferrably nutrient rich substrate. They need time to sprout, which will take anywhere from a day to several months.

Thats a starter list for ya! Try to find/get these, AFTER you get some form of lighting.

I've had that male swordtail for six years now, he's a hardy little guy. They've never made any babies. Does that mean anything?

Maybe you werent conditioning them, with a varied diet containing lots of freeze dried and live foods.

Good luck, and hope this all goes well!

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