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Hello

My tanks have both cycled. Yeah !!! Strange, the 20G tank had a 2 week head start on 43.5G – but they both reached the end of their cycle on the same day.

Now, the fun part – stocking the tanks and I'm hoping you can help with suggestions.

My goal for the tank is to have only peaceful residents, so I don't want any fish that have aggressive tendencies or are known to be fin nippers etc. It would also be good to have a mix of bottom, middle & upper level dwellers. Colour variations would be great too. Also, I'd prefer species that won't destroy or eat my plants.

In the 43.5G, which has lots of plants, I have:-

3 Twin Bar Platys
1 Mickey Mouse Platy
Moving in eventually - 6 male guppies (currently in 20G tank, but will definitely move to the 43.5G)

I'm keen for my next new resident's to be Panda Corys, but LFS also told me of an alternate Cory he's getting in – so will have a look at those before deciding. I've read Corys are best in a group of 6 – but is that too many fish to buy in one go. Do I need to buy 3 this week & then a couple of weeks later, get the other 3? I'd like to do this right, so if anyone knows the best number to buy at the one time, that would be great.

So do you have any suggestions for the 43.5G as to what I can have in there?

I’m going to consider the 20G tank separately, probably in the cichlid forum. In the meantime, guppies will stay there to keep tank cycled.

Hope you all can help with suggestions.

Cheers
TW

6 will be fine to add at a time. Just do about 6 a week. I would go ahead and get 6 of the cories, if the LFS has that many. They do better in larger groups...especially if you get Pandas.

I would only add one type of schooling fish. You already have platies and then guppies that will take up the mid-top areas. There is really only room for one type of schooling fish. I suggest Lemon tetras. You should be able to have about 8 of them. That should be enough so they wouldn't nip your guppies. I have never kept them though, so get another opinion. I know they can be playful...not sure if they are fin-nippers though.
If not lemons, then maybe Harlequin Rasboras. They are very pretty and you could have about 8 of those.

For the bottom I would get about 10 of one type of cory. You could add them 5 at a time.

I think with the platies, guppies, schooling fish, and cories, you would be stocked. You could have a few ottos if you start having algae.

*Kristin*

Hi Robyn,

Congrats on getting the tanks cycled!

I have the same size tank as yours, you can see my stocking in my profile for comparison. I think you're pretty well covered in the mid to upper section with the platies and guppies.

For middle-to-bottom layer, you could add a school of tetras (cardinals, neons, lemons, black neons, black phantoms, black/white skirts, rummynoses, bentosi/white tip, rosy, etc.), rasboras (harlequin, espei, hengeli, etc.), smaller barbs (like cherry barbs), or even natives like rainbows (praecox, boesmani, etc.). I would only do one school of fish (6-12 depending on size) to make a better schooling effect. Keep in mind that some fish schools better than others. I've had good schooling results from cardinal tetras & harlequin rasboras, as long as you keep them in odd number group.

For bottom feeders, I'm partial to corys. Pandas are great, fun fish. You could keep 10 Pandas in that tank. For looks, I like cory trilineatus (most of time falsely labelled "julii" in the LFS) and sterbai. They are fairly common here. If your tank is cycled, then adding 6 corys at one time shouldn't be a problem. I would only add those 6 at one time though, and try to space out your fish addition to once a week to allow the biofilter to adjust to the fish load. I know it's hard just to buy one type of fish when you go to the LFS, especially in the beginning stage when you have this big, empty tank!!

Anyways, have fun picking fish!!

EDIT: Oh, forgot to add that otos are a must in any planted tanks. Get at least 5 for the big tank. And if you don't care for schooling fish, you could go with one or two pairs (or a trio) of peaceful cichlids like Bolivian Rams or Keyhole Cichlids.

-P

Robyn,

GirlieGirl8519 and upikabu gave you good advice, that should give you some ideas and you may need some time to decide.

Just a few things in addition:

a) whatever cories you get, I am more keen on the ones that stay a little on the smaller side (no cory expert here, but some get around 3" while others are like 2", besides the pymy ones)
b) Consider a pair of Gouramies as the center fish, I suggest something like (my) Pearls
c) And just in case, spread out new additions to once every two weeks. You don't have a QT and the last thing you want is sick fish infecting all the others (that are added later - for the earlier ones it is already too late). Two weeks should provide enough time to cach most illnesses for sure, one week might not be enough.

Have fun,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks everyone for the good suggestions so far.

As usual, I have questions:-

You could keep 10 Pandas in that tank. For looks, I like cory trilineatus (most of time falsely labeled "julii" in the LFS) and sterbai.

I looked at FP profile for Trilineatus & they look really nice, but my heart has been set on Pandas for a while. Would it work to have say 6 Pandas and 4 Trilineatus. Profile for Trilineatus says best in school of 4 - so would that work OK, or should I stick with 10 of one kind? BTW, couldn't find profile or pic for sterbai. Does anyone have either that they could share?

more keen on the ones that stay a little on the smaller side (no cory expert here, but some get around 3" while others are like 2"

I checked out FP for Panda and Trilineatus and both small (2.2inches & under).

otos are a must in any planted tanks. Get at least 5 for the big tank

I looked otto up on FP profile & are they sucking catfish? I might have had a bad one, but before I really got into this hobby, I had a tank with one goldfish. For a very short while I added what LFS said was called a Sucking Catfish. This fish chased my goldfish & kept trying to suck on it. I spoke to LFS, who told me this can be common & that he was probably sucking the slime coating off the goldfish & could have killed it. So I returned him. Is this the same fish and is this common behaviour - or am I thinking of the wrong fish? I did see at LFS an albino (yellow) version which was pretty - but I wouldn't like to have fish that hassle the other fish. Anyone else had experience of this behaviour?

Keep the comments & suggestions coming. They're appreciated. Thanks

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

To my knowledge cories can be mixed. But I would prefer either one species large group or two sufficient sized groups (might be ok with 6 and 4, don't know) as I believe they prefer their own kind and mix because of limited options.

You can always peruse the web for additional info on cories, like for the Sterbei etc.

Otos are excellent fish for the tropical planted aquarium, once it is settled (have 6 myself). They need algae in the tank to munch on, but not the kind algae that is visually disturbing (all settled tanks - when planted at least - have this algae). If they don't get this kind of food they tend to go after the fish and suck on their slime coat. They don't want to starve to death. This has never happened in my tank though, but I have seen it in a bad fish store where the Otos were in a bare and totally sterile tank with some fish.

One word of caution: Otos eat only algae and when they get to the LFS they have been bagged in sterile bags for quite some time. As such it rather often happens that they die within weeks because the damage done to their system from starvation is too severe (in particular when they are younger). So - deaths in your tank may occur.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here's a profile & pics of c. sterbai:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/callicht/corydora/316_F.PHP

C. sterbai & c. trilineatus get to around the same size (6cm). C. panda is smaller, although I've seen some that's around 5cm. You should be ok with 6-8 Pandas & 4 trilineatus, or 6 of each.

I've never had otos who bother other fish. But since you mentioned you saw an albino version of what you had, I think you're referring to bristlenose pleco. I've never seen an albino oto (if such a thing exists), but albino bristlenoses are quite common here.
Oto: [link]http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/loricari/otocincl/107_F.PHP [/link]
Bristlenose: http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/loricari/ancistru/49_F.PHP
Albino BN: http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/loricari/ancistru/5_F.PHP

-P

Pandas do better the larger group you get. I would say do a minimum of 8. You could mix them, but the trilineatus I have are not very active. I would just go with the pandas and save the false juliis for a future tank.
All cories like the company of their own type, that is why most people say the minimum for any kind is 6. I wouldn't get just 4 of a kind.

You could have had a Chinese Algae Eater. Most stores just label them Algae Eaters. There is a yellowish type of those. They will suck on other fish and get aggressive with age. They will also chase other fish.

LittleFish is right about the ottos. Many times they are starved and that is why they dont make it.
Ottos are great if you have enough algae for them. They won't eat algae wafers.

BN's are good. They produce alot of waste though, but do a good job cleaning up algae. They stay around 4 inches and will also eat algae wafers and some vegetables. I have one in my 55g and absolutely love him.

*Kristin*

Hi

Yes, I had a chinese algae eater. In my ignorance, I thought they were the same fish. Checked out FP profile & can see the difference now. Will make sure I don't get a CAE again, as he was one mean fish - FP profile confirms it's agression. Re: getting the Otos - although the tank's now cycled, it did this fairly quickly - it's only day 32 since set-up. Is this enough time for me to have sufficient algae for the otos? I don't want to starve them, since they won't eat algae wafers? How do I tell if I have enough algae - I can't really see any? When my tank was empty, I saw some white fluffy algae around the top of the heater, but since the platys moved in, I haven't seen any.

Like the look of BN, but think they're too big for me. Are there any dwarf BN's? Also, my tank is fairly heavily planted, with only small areas where I can gravel vac properly - so heavy waste issue might be a bother. Would weekly 30% water changes be sufficient to take care of the waste, considering I can only gravel vac in limited areas?

To recap, what I think I can have in the tank (although I might have included some - where really I was supposed to make a choice - I got a little unlcear on this somehow).

4 platy
6 guppy
7 cardinals - do you think I have room for more than 7?
8-10 Pandas
6 Ottos (if enough algae)

Do I have room left for a single or pair of some other peaceful (non fin nipping) fish?

Cheers
TW

How do I tell if I have enough algae - I can't really see any

If you can't see any...then I would assume you don't have enough yet.

The BN stays about 4 inches. I think a clown pleco stays about the same length, but they don't clean up the algae as well.

If you go with ottos, I would make sure they are the last fish you add...just to make sure you have enough for them to eat. They will be fine in a group of 3...so when you are ready to put them in and don't feel you have alot of algae...3 will be fine. I have 3 in my 55g.

I would not suggest adding anymore fish than in your stocking list below.
You could bump the cardinals up to about 10, since they are small. But I wouldn't add any more than that.
The guppies, platies, and cardinals will take up the middle and top spaces...so not much room left for anything else.
If you go with the smaller pandas, you could add a Bolivian Ram. I think they stay towards the bottom. They are pretty peaceful and will help control the fry, if you have male and female platies and guppies.
I wouldn't get a pair though, because if they bred they could get aggressive towards your cories.

That list may not sound like alot of fish...but only being a 44g tank, it will be stocked. Overstocking can cause some problems. Your tank may be a little overstocked with all those fish, but since it is heavily planted...it will be fine. Just make sure you keep up with water changes and cleaning, once your tank is stocked.

*Kristin*

Thanks GirlieGirl8519

Ok, will delay getting the Otos - they will be my 3 last fish.

I would not suggest adding anymore fish than in your stocking list below

If you go with the smaller pandas, you could add a Bolivian Ram

I am going with the pandas, but just to make sure I have it clear in my head, do I have to give up 1 or more of the other fish, if I do get a single male Bolivian Ram?

Does it matter in what order I get the other fish. I can't get the Pandas straight away. LFS has put in an order, but his supplier has no stock at the moment either. Was thinking, if I can find the Bolivian Ram, I might get that this weekend (unless I have to give up one of the other fishes for him). He won't eat my tetra's or guppies will he?

To recap stock:-

4 platy
6 guppy
9-10 cardinals
10 Pandas
1 Male Bolivian Ram
3 Ottos when sufficient algae is present in tank




Cheers
TW

4 platy
6 guppy
9-10 cardinals
10 Pandas
1 Male Bolivian Ram
3 Ottos when sufficient algae is present in tank

Good stocking!
I'd add the Ram first as it is the hardiest of the new acquisitions. Make sure you slowly acclimate the cardinals when you get them (at least an hour or two, slow drip if possible).

Also, if you say your tank is quite full of plants, there's probably enough algae there for the otos. In any case, I would ask the LFS how long they've had the otos. I only get otos that have already been at the LFS for at least a month. The first few weeks is when they're most fragile. But if the LFS succeeds in keeping them for a month, that means they have enough to eat and should be hardy enough for your tank.

-P

If you decide to get the ottos earlier, than I would add the Pandas last. They are the most sensitive. I did move my Pandas from my 55g to my 29g a few days after it was done cycling and they have been ok ever since though.

Once you are not showing ammonia or nitrites...its pretty much safe to add anything.

If you want to be cautious, then save the Pandas for last. That way the tank will be pretty established.

You won't have to give up anything for the Bolivian Ram. He should fit in nicely. Go ahead and add him soon, if you find them.

He won't eat the adult guppies or tetras...but may snack on fry, if you have any. He will help control the population and make sure your tank doesn't get overstocked with babies.

Cardinals can be added after the Ram. If you can get them soon then you could add about 5 of them when you add the ram. That wouldn't be adding too many at a time...or you could wait a week. I usually add about 4-5 fish a week. That's what I did in my 55g and I never had a problem. I'm doing that now in my 29g, although this past week I didn't add any.

Your stocking sounds great. Do you have a picture of your tank now that it is planted? I would love to see it. I have my 55g moderately planted but I have a major algae problem that I can't seem to get rid of...so alot of my plants have died. I am slowly taking care of this annoying problem.
Good luck! Remember to acclimate slowly and add in fish slowly.

*Kristin*

4 platy
6 guppy
9-10 cardinals
10 Pandas
1 Male Bolivian Ram
3 Ottos when sufficient algae is present in tank

Well Robyn, I wouldn't be myself if I wouldn't throw a curve in here

No doubt this setup will work, but some thoughts to keep in mind.

- Platies and Guppies: if you get females (even if it is only one) your population will eventually explode. I bought 2 female Platies for one tank, now I have 10 in there. I remember how excited I was when I was able to safe 9 Platy fry in another tank. I raised them all . Today's reaction when I see a new fry in that tank is more like "not again". This tank had 3 Platies (2f,1m) and now has maybe 18.
- Cardinals: Here in the US we have quite a few issues with this fish. A die-off rate of 50% is rather common when tank conditions are not optimal (and that means for one thing the tank has to be settled - 6 months). Tetratech has quite some experience with this fish, but even he lost many until he added a UV filter to the tank.
- 3 Otos: sounds good, as a final number, if not more. Given that one or two might die, be prepared to buy more to maintain at least 3. I personally would say get 5, it makes them feel way more secure.
- Ram: nice . The only issue I have here is my personal preference of not having only one fish of a kind. I just think life must be so boring if the fish can't find a mate. A couple would be great.
- Padas: Nice, but maybe get only 8 to leave some room for later.

And - just to give you another option - how about a pair of Gouramies? I am over the dwarf versions, so I suggest you look at the Pearl Gouramies, just to check if you may like them.

So, I think I have confused you enough for now .

Have fun,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi guys

Do you have a picture of your tank now that it is planted

GirlieGirl, I'll try to take a photo this weekend. I have to warn you though, I'm not very creative. So, it's a very poor effort when compared to other tanks you've seen. Anyhow, watch this thread for a photo soon.

It seems I have to wait a bit longer to stock up, 'cause the panda's & ram are both out of stock; I may not have enough algae for the ottos just yet; & LF says a six month tank is better for the cardinals. Heave a big disappointed sigh!!

at least an hour or two, slow drip if possible

upikabu, I know about floating the bag, & then adding tank water to to the bag a couple of times - but what is the slow drip method?

Platies and Guppies: if you get females (even if it is only one) your population will eventually explode

LF, I'm hoping that as mentioned by GirlieGirl, the ram will help take care of that. My guppies are all male, so that should be fine. I let myself be talked into 2 males & 2 female platys, which I regret. The only good thing is LFS promised to take any fry that survived and give me credit toward other things I might need from his shop. I don't really care about the credit, as long as he takes any surviving fry. If only I could figure out which are my females, I'd take them back now & swap them over, as I've already had one lot of fry (all eaten luckily - for me, not the poor fry). I'm considering packing all four up, taking them to LFS & getting him to take back whichever ones are the females, as I don't feel all that comfortable about eaten fry, but I don't want a population explosion either.

Ram: nice. The only issue I have here is my personal preference of not having only one fish of a kind

For 2 reasons, at this stage I only have the one lone male ram on my stocking list. Firstly, it was mentioned that when breeding they may be aggressive toward the other residents & secondly, would the addition of the female make me overstocked? If anyone else has comments on this, it would be good to hear. I have to say, the aggression issue is important to me, as I want a very peaceful tank.

Cardinals: Here in the US we have quite a few issues with this fish. A die-off rate of 50% is rather common

I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if here in Aussie we have the same issues. Are neon's any more sturdy. I'd like one or the other (preferred cardinals, as they're slightly prettier). If need be, I can wait the 6 months, if that's the best thing to do. Any comments from Aussie's (in particular) & anyone else (in general) please.

LF, re: the gouramies. You might remember some of my earliest posts. My very 1st cycling fish were 3 gouramies, that were aggressive to each other. I took them back. I thought they were pretty, but as they were aggressive, they have probably put me off for the time being. Might come back to them in the future in another tank (wishful thinking there).

LF, this doesn't belong in this thread, but I'm hoping just to sneak it in here anyway. Way back when I started cycling & I was going to trade in my 20G on the 43.5G, I believe it was you that suggested I bag up some of the gravel from the 20G (which had been cycling for only a week anyway) & put this in the new tank to help it along. So, I bagged up heaps of the gravel put them in clean stockings. I have 5 of these stockings in my tank - not such a great look. Now that I've cycled (ammonia & nitrite are both nil), I still haven't removed these stockings. Am I able to remove them all in one go. Or, as I suspect, do I need to remove them gradually over a period of time? What do you suggest?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Well, sounds like you got that stocking list all worked out and gave it a lot of thought

About Neons and Cardinals: Over here we had first the issues with the Neons (way before the Cardinals caused similar problems). One assumption is that many may be bred in the same farms over and over again and as such the strand becomes weaker and weaker and more suspicable (spelling) to illnesses, one of which is the mysterious Neon Tetra Desease (not only limited to Neons thoug). Often, whole areas are supplied by the same wholesaler and if he carries Neons (or Cardinals) from a weak stock then it doesn't even matter which LFS you go to.

Gravel Stockings : To be on the carful side, remove one every 3 days. That should do it.

Rams are not generally aggressive when breeding, they simply defend their "nest" and later the free swimming fry (if they remember how to do that as a lot have been tank bred as well). Tetratech has a tank with Cardinals, Pencilfish, some other stuff (), and Bolivian Rams. They bred twice so far and what happenes is that the other fish eat the eggs and fry, none of these fish has been harmed.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

You can read about the drip method here.

RE: cardinal quality in Oz, if the local Brisbane LFS stocks up until the end of last year were representative of the rest of the country (which they probably were), then they were pretty bad. Very small size (and not so good looking), lots of death during quarantine. Even the LFS's confirmed that. Most if not all of all cardinals are wild caught in South America, so the same issue was probably happening around the world as well. The only good batch I got was one that has been living in one LFS for over 6 months (so from previous import). Now I haven't really checked them out again this year (have only been to LFS once in the last 2 months , so it's possible they've gotten better imports since. I would observe them carefully in the LFS over a few weeks to see if they color up well.

Neons on the other hand are usually tank raised, so you might get lucky with them especially if they're bred locally. Ask the LFS about where they get them from. The ones imported from overseas (mostly bred in Asian fish farms) are sometimes susceptible to NTS.

Have you considered rasboras or rainbowfish for your school instead of tetras?

Rams won't bother other fish. They just squabble amongst themselves, and even then not enough to cause any damage. Your tank is big enough for a couple to keep away from each other (IME even a breeding couple prefer to be alone unless they're in the "mood" ). When they're breeding, the "aggression" towards other fish is only when the other fish gets to close to the frys (corys love Ram wrigglers!). The parents basically just chase them away.

Anyways, be patient stocking the tank. It's not worth getting fish now if the stock available is not that good. Plus you'll have enough platies to keep the tank cycled for a while (probably the rest of your life).

-P

Hi LF, upikabu & GirlieGirl & anyone else who might read this thread

Re: the tetras. The guy at my LFS gave me the web site for his major stock supplier (I think he got sick of my questions too, & thought he'd get more peace if I could search myself to see what he can get me. The is an extract from the text re: the tetras:

Most supplies to our trade are from wild-caught fish and as such the supply is regulated by flooding and other natural phenomena

If they are wild caught, do you think that makes a different. I note it is says "most" not all. What do any of you think - or maybe I should ask that specific question in a tetra forum - is there one?

Re: the female ram. If there was no aggression issue and there is a solution to the fry (eg eaten or LFS taking survivors) I wouldn't mind that - but don't want to overstock. GirlieGirl, what do you think? I think you'll say I'm overstocked?

Edit. Just ready your post upikabu, so that 2 votes against the stability of the cardinals & tetras. So, I'll have to have another think about my schooling fish.

Re: the Platys - do you think that I should take the females back, or is it very unlikely any fry will survive. I don't want the platys dictating what I have in the tank, by crowding out everyone else

Cheers
TW

I think a pair of Rams will be fine. Everyone seems to say that even if they breed, your cories will be ok, so I say go for it.
As for the cardinals, if you are worried about the cardinals and neons, why not go with Harlequin Rasboras? They are pretty small (i think), have great red color, and are very peaceful.
Another option is Flame Tetras. I have just got 10 of these little guys for my 55g. They play amongst themselves, but don't bother the other fish. They are also pretty small (not as small as neons/cardinals though ). The problem with them may be finding them. I have only found them at one LFS, but it may be different where you live. Oh, and they are also red.



*Kristin*

Robyn,

There is always a chance that some fry (in this case the platies) will survive, inparticular in a planted tank with loads of hiding places. But didn't you say the LFS would take them? If so, and if you really like them, then keep them .

About the tetras: you have time, check out the various options of tetras that are out there and then decide. One point towards Harlequin Rasboras - they are hardier than tetras and can be added in conditions less optimal than perfect. But if you want these, then why not get Harlequin Rasbora Espei - I think you remember where you can read up on that fish .

Have fun,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club