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I have a 2.5 gallon aquarium that has a Whisper carbon filter with an air pump. It has been set up for 4 weeks and is home to a 2" Oranda Goldfish. The nitrates, nitrites, alkalinity and ph values are all where they should be. However, the ammonia level is at 3.0. I have tried changing some of the water and all of the water, siphoning the gravel and not siphoning, and the ammonia level doesn't change. I have tested the water that comes out of the spigot and it reads 0 for ammonia level. I do add "AquaSafe" to the water when changing it. The Oranda is always at the top of the water gulping, what I assume is air. There is very little food waste because he eats pretty much all what is fed to him. There are a few small plastic plants for decoration. This is my first try at fish and I don't want to lose it. I have spent several hours looking through other posts but nothing is specific to my tank. I have a 10 gallon tank that is new and it is doing well. Please help!

Being relatively new to fish keeping myself the only explaination I could give is that a 2.5 gallon tank is no were near the amount of space a goldfish needs. I believe they need 10 gallons a goldfish because they are very messy fish. The reason that it's gasping is that it can not breath because of the ammonia. Thats all i can really offer you, im sure others can help you more.

Sorry I cant be of more help to you

good luck

tigermom

I believe they need 10 gallons a goldfish because they are very messy fish.

Actually, it's more like 50-60 gallons per fish for the fancy varieties. Regular comets should be kept in a pond.

Anyway, what tigermom said was right. The ammonia is actually chemically burning the gills of the goldfish. Being damaged, they won't let the fish absorb oxygen properly. Furthermore, there is also probably some nitrite in the tank (what ammonia gets converted to by beneficial bacteria), and the nitrite lowers the amount of oxygen the fish's blood can carry -- it is less toxic than ammonia, but still a major health concern. What's more, goldfish have such large oxygen needs that in a tank that small, a goldfish will very quickly use up all the available oxygen. To put it into perspective, imagine that you had a plastic bag over your head and tied around your neck, and that bag was filled with ammonia.

Unfortunately, goldfish are basically underwater pigs, but most pet stores won't tell you that. They are very messy eaters and are big poop machines. Essentially, in a tank that small, your fish is in effect swimming in its own urine and feces. Not altogether a pleasant situation.

If this is sounding harsh, I'm sorry. I'm only being this blunt to get your attention.

I'm sorry to see that this is your first try at keeping fish and you got suckered into the concept of the "goldfish bowl"; that is, that goldfish can be kept in a very small tank. Unfortunately, most fishkeepers start out this way too. Heck, I did. But you seem like you really want to learn and that you care about your fish's well being, and that is a very great thing.

First thing is first: the goldfish will not survive long term in a setup like that. If it made it more than another few weeks, I'd be very surprised. It needs to be moved to a much larger tank. If you can't accommodate it, can you find a friend who maybe has an outdoor pond?

Next thing: I'd recommend taking a look at some of the articles on this website, especially the ones aimed at newcomers to the hobby. This]http://www.fishprofiles.net/faq/begin.asp[/link] one, [link=this]http://www.fishprofiles.net/faq/begin-cycling.asp[/link] one, and [link=this]http://www.fishprofiles.net/faq/begin-chem.asp[/link] one are three that you should review and understand. They will IMMENSELY help in your future fishkeeping endeavours. As far as good fish for a beginner's tank, [link=this article is a good one to review.

I know it seems like I'm dumping a lot of material on you (and, to be fair, I am), but it is all critical knowledge you need for long-term success.

I will end this post by saying "Welcome to FP!" We have people on here who can answer most any question, so please don't hesitate to ask!

Joe Potato


Edit: For clarity. Misread number of fish in the original post.

newtofish.

What Joe has told you is exactly what the LFS should have fully explained to you. That set up is totally wrong. If you wish to keep Gold fish I strongly suggest you do a lot of research on keeping gold fish. I am not a Gold fish keeper but I am sure you will find plenty of accurate infomation here.
The only way you are going to save that fish is buy another good sized suitable tank. I would also start looking for a better LFS that is prepared to assist you.

If you tell us your location someone here is bound to help you in selecting a good LFS

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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Welcome to the site New
What joe said is pretty much right . The fancy golfish can be kept in tanks but they need lots of room. A 55 gallon tank would be a minimum for that fish. Even better would be a 75 gallon as they are deeper tanks and will offer more room.

A larger tank will not only be good for the fish, but you'll have an easier time maintaining it and you'll be able to add a few more fish (not too much because the goldfish is going to need about half that 'space') and become as addicted to the fishies as the rest of us are .

I agree with keith as well, sounds like you got some pretty bad advice from your LFS which is too bad, check with us on any questions you have then head back to the store armed with the right information.

^_^

If anyone remembers a couple of years ago, I was nursing the gf's sisters adult fancy goldfish back to health in a 25 gal,that was my quarantine, her tank was a 10 gallon, and I honestly threw it in the bin almost as soon as I saw it. During the time I nursed him, I took a series of readings to calculate just what their ammonia production and waste bioload was, and it basically equated to 40ppm per week in a 25 gal with a whacking great eheim on it rated for a 55 gal. Average temps were 69f for the period, and there were percentile increases in nitrates per degree of about 2% over that temperature. which just goes to show that while fancies may be too vulnerable in the swimbladder to go outdoors, they are not truly warmth adapted, and the warmer you keep them the less efficient their breathing becomes. A good arguement to never include one in a tropical aquarium. So extrapolate that into water changes, and bear in mind I had to use denitrifying resin, water changes and additional denitrifying bacteria to keep his water quality under 40ppm to keep him well without having to swap out all of the water and you get a sense of what your up against. When I first recieved the fish the nitrates were testing 300ppm, my test kit just didnt go any higher than that.

Basically a veiltail fancy goldie adult( thats a 1-2 lb fish) at 68f raises 25 gal to 40ppm in a week, which means that to reduce those water changes to an acceptable level the real tanksize for a fully adult goldie needs to be around 100 gal. Thats per fish. Which means they kick out more crap than a pair of oscars. Each. No wonder he had fungus, thanks to overload , and complex ammonia burn his immune system was almost nothing.

When she came back to collect him, nearly three months later,not only did she find the fish in a tank four times the size, he was actually moving around, instead of hanging there like a depressed ringwraith, even occassionally leaping and bombing about at quite a good speed for a fish with the aquadynamics of a small bus.He was enjoying newfound oxygen , clear water, and new muscles, had gained about 30% mass, the tail no longer drooped, his breathing was almost imperceptible, he was taking food from my hand, and hunting his own brineshrimp, rearraging plants, and changed to well...gold!

I also handed out a lecture from hell, rather like charlton heston in the ten commandments

He was lucky, most die. He remembered me too, to this day, I am the only person he swims up to willingly. In fact he goes nuts.

The fact that this fish remembers is not lost on me. If people knew what they were feeling, if they had the vaguest idea, would goldfish be so abused? She had no idea he was intelligent, or that his depression, lack of oxygenation , filtration and room took an intelligent animal and made it little better than a retard, and that was her fault. She didnt know that he could be responsive, or that he ever should have been. It was , without question, a fishkeeping disgrace, and one many thousands of keepers of goldies mirror worldwide. Its a bloody shame.

But she was told , and it did get into her head, as did the necessary humility and guilt.

Thats one thing im good at In fact, now she looks after my fish when I go on holiday

The best thing you can do in the meantime till you get a better setup is totally change his water every day or every second day, and clean out the filter each time. There's no point in trying to cycle the tank, the ammonia will get too high and he will die first since the tank is too small for the amount of waste. You can also get zeolite (Ammocarb, Ammochips, etc.). This is something you can put in the filter to chemically bond with the ammonia to keep it from reaching such toxic levels. But this is only a stopgap measure and won't work for long term. But to save him in the meantime...do this right away.

...or alternatively get that bigger tank right away,and get it cycled asap, or give him up. 100% water changes can also be seriously detrimental to a fishs health, its like a persistant series of tankmoves. Beyond doing it once or twice for emergency purposes 100% water changes are another fairly reliable way to kill fish. Most fish can take the environmental shock of 100% water changes no better than high ammonia and nitrates, and since a cycle is an inevitability, its better to work with it than to try and deny it. One way or another the fish has to make it to a bigger aquarium for it to be healthy and survive. This is a basic responsibility issue, and theres no avoiding it. Front up the cash or move the fish on is the basic choice here. Zeolite or ammolock can help you keep the ammonia off the fish in the short term, but neither is a solution in real terms, the only real solution is a much bigger tank, and if you cant do that in a reasonable timeframe then the only responsible thing to do is give the fish away to someone better prepared for its housing requirements.

I used to do 100% water changes all the time with my bettas and they were fine. The important thing was that I used my regular tap water all the time and that the temperature was close to identical each time too. This would be easy with a goldfish who has no heater, simply let the water sit overnight to get to room temperature.

Hate to break it to ya, but that shouldnt be done with bettas either. Im not arguing that is not done a lot, but its not good fishkeeping, and besides fancy goldies often have swim bladders a great deal more fragile than bettas. Its far too risky a thing to do regularly. Betta keepers get away with it a lot, but its risky. No-one has any business doing that with any other kind of fish. If I did that to all the species I own id lose a good thirty percent of them in the first two weeks. 100% water changes are reserved for the toughest of species , by the less well able keepers, and the smallest of tanks. Its a true beginners mistake. Most experienced fishkeepers know well not to take such risks.Its not good practise.

Id recommend you stop doing it too. Much better to have a bigger tank and do 20-25% changes a week. Temperature is not the only factor. If you have to do more than 35% a week your overstocked anyway. Betta keeping is the low standards end of fishkeeping, thanks to the toughness of the fish, betta keepers get away with standards that lots people would find horrendous, even abusive, and most other species would not survive under the standards most people keep their bettas at.

You cant take betta keeping standards and apply them to other fish species outside of the labyrinth group. Most exclusive betta keepers dont have the wider view of fishkeeping that others do, or the level of learning, or the necessary caution when dealing with other species. Bettas will probably survive a nuclear war. lol. Bettas are a beginners fish, and oddly enough goldfish arent, thats why so many of them die. Lets be honest here, when's the last time your saw a 30 year old goldfish?